Where's The Manufacturers?

GLENN_14

Manufacturers are not going out on a limb to tell people that their installs are bad. Unless the situation is very bad, or a dangerous one, it is hard to get them to say anything negative. I know some manufacturers who avoid this site because of the chance that they can get slammed for their comments... I can't blame them for avoiding the down side of the truth....

Rick_72

Burnham, Buderus, Weil McLain, Where Did They Go?

Did I miss something? Glenn? Joe? Bueller? Anybody?

Dick Charland

I'm not sure what your are looking for. As a manufacturer's representative (Peerless, Bacharach, Energy Savings Products, HeatFlo etc.) I monitor this site on a daily basis and respond to questions, problems etc. when they apply to my product lines. I've seen the same from other reps. Do you have a specific problem you need dealt with? I'm quite puzzled as to what you want us to do?

Robert O'Brien

I would

guess chased away by the endless beating of dead horses and the threat of lawsuits.Why post something today that a lawyer could use against you years from now?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

GLENN_14

I AGREE

THE MANUFACTURERS ARE ALWAYS GETTING BEAT UP OVER ISSUES THAT FOR THE MOST PART HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM. SO MANY OF THE ISSUES POSTED HAVE TO DO WITH DESIGN OR INSTALLATION RELATED PROBLEMS THAT WE WOULD NOT BE DEALING WITH IF WE COULD JUST IMPROVE THE INDUSTRY IN GENERAL WITH SOME TYPE OF MANDATORY TRAINING FOR PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY. WE NEED TO BETTER OURSELVES AND NOT LOOK TO THE LAWYERS, MANUFACTURERS, ETC TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS. HOW ABOUT MANDATORY CERTIFICATIONS THAT REQUIRE CONTINUOUS TRAINING FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO REMAIN CERTIFIED? THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!

DanHolohan

Glenn,

please go easy on the CAPS. It's tough on the eyes. Thanks.

Supply House Rick

Glenn is right

Everybody wants to blame somebody, who accepts resposibility anymore? If the mfg posts' he gets hammered. I have seen some horrible looking work posted here and the other installers tell him how nice it is. I wish a mfg would once say -"that's crappy, read the install manual" Last I looked mfgs were her to help and now the best ones have been chased away by idiots talking class action suits. shame

bobbyg_7

Dan,
Do you ask everyone to watch the CAPS? I thought it (all caps)was understood to give emphasis to something.

I feel Glenn has a right to ALL CAPs. I've seen other people explain to someone that ALL CAPS isn't appropriate in general conversation, but I don't recall you ever pointing that out. If I just didn't see you do it before, I apologize. Otherwise, I feel his CAPS are approrpriate.

I agree Glenn.

GLENN_14

Dan

I am sorry if the all caps bothered you. I do feel a strong sense of sadness over the issues that continue to plague our industry in general. With so many of the problems related to poor install practices and a lack of knowlege about the products that we are supposed to sell and install, it is no wonder that there are so many disgruntled home and business owners out there. Not to mention the many great business people who lose business to the endless line of "trunk slammers" who continue to keep our profession from being able to be professional. So i stand here on my soapbox and speak my peace.

Paul Fredricks_5

I agree too. But all caps are hard to read. For me a COUPLE of words used to EMPHASIS the idea works better.

jp_2

Who?

is going to police all those mandates?

some people need to attend a class, others just need to read the directions? who's going to make THAT call?

DanHolohan

Hello, Bobby

It's standard internet etiquette not to use all caps when posting on a board. It's considered shouting and it's difficult to read. Yes, I've pointed this out to our visitors many times over the years, as have others. Thanks for understanding.

DanHolohan

You're welcome to the box, Glenn

And thanks for turning off the caps. Much easier on the eyes now.

bobbyg_7

bobbyg, not to be confused with bobby...right, Bruce.

DanHolohan

Sure.

SpeyFitter

it has been a little quiet around here

I've been visiting this site for three or four years, and while I don't usually get into the mix, I've gotten some great advice here. But I've see this site really thrash a few manufacturers lately. No question that some of the thrashing has been coached. The tone here has truly changed, perhaps the manufacturers see this site being used more as a weapon than a tool and that might be why they seem to have backed off.
But it's still sort of fun to visit this site. I would say it's like reading The Wall Street Journal for many years, and then switching to The Enquirer. As long as you aren't picking you stocks from what you read in the Enquirer, you'll have a lot of fun!

Home Depot Employee

Wholesale guys

Guys that typically type in caps here are wholesale employees using their desktop computers that also are used for the sales/order entry/inventory programs.

The chosen few that have more than a CRT just switched from a wholesale distributor software program and forgot to shut off caps.

(I used to make that mistake 20 years ago?)

John_173

Fun?

This is a GREAT site. Lots of fun here. And the expertise, thoughtfulness & generosity is inspiring. But I believe the vitriol & scurrilous charges & innuendo (& outdeother) have been over the top lately. It is not "fun" to engage in personal attack & spread unproved rumor.

I lurk regularly & open my mouth too often. I value the views (& the polite disagreements) of those here. I find the assassination attempts offensive.

I've been thinking (since November or so) of posting a topic headed "Something wrong with the water?" to underscore the recent incivility here.

Mr. Holohan, If I'm out of line here, I apologize. I'm not trying to muzzle anyone, just to put in a word for civility.

Peace to you all.

Plumdog_2

I agree

Keep up the good work, Glenn

Supply House Rick

****

With sincerest apologies, I think he meant major mfgs like Burnham & Buderus and that for certain wouldn't include somebody like peerless

don_185

Once

Once again, how are we suppose to look professional to the ho or business owner when we have people such as Glenn slamming other people that are in the same trade as himself.

It appears to me that some people need to climb down off that high horse they are on and start looking at oneself in the mirror.

Whats wrong Glenn did the trunk slammer do a better job at selling his product then you did?

Rich Kontny_6

Certifications

There certainly is nothing wrong with continuing ed in order to maintain certifications and/or licenses. Don what part of education and knowledge do you find offensive?

Fact is installs tend to be the biggest problem not inferior product. There is a lot of venting that takes place here and your post DON seems to fall in that category!

Glenn's post was not offensive to me, in fact it was very accurate. Don's post is far more offensive than Glenn's CAPS..

GLENN_14

Don

If you found it offensive then perhaps i struck to close to home for you. I do not know you or your business. I am not currently acting in the capacity as a contractor. I do however spend a vast amount of time trying to help contractors correct bad installations and poor designs that the end consumer always blames on the equipment. These are for people who continue to operate in this business but who also refuse to educate themselves in order to raise the bar. Raising the bar means better system installations, DOING THE MATH, and actually making more money as a true professional in this business. I would hope that you would agree that properly trained professionals should be able to make more money in this business. I for one am in favor of having some sort of continued training requirement to be in this business. This will only benefit us all in the end....

don_185

Hi Glenn

I agree with everything you said this time.

I'm a small shop with only four of us and I spent over 22000 dollars alone last year in training.

I seem to always get offended by those here that assume what they do in this trade is far better then anyone can do when it comes to forceair.

You made your point clearly to me.You stated that trunk slammer is making us all look unprofessional.Hows that?

Are you saying that guys that do wetheat work can do no wrong?

Just for the record..We are a mechanical contractor,that to those who know what that means is, we do it all.

So yes, being I know how much work and knowledge it takes to also do forceair I do, find it offensive to those who think that we are making the trade look so unprofessional.

Best regards to all.

Home Depot Employee

catch 22

"I do however spend a vast amount of time trying to help contractor’s correct bad installations and poor designs that the end consumer always blames on the equipment. These are for people who continue to operate in this business but who also refuse to educate themselves in order to raise the bar"

Reminds me of a controversial post 1-2 years ago that was later removed- "Firing the customer"

How can a distributor complain about bad installs and incompetent contractors but at the same time are involved in the situation because they are the ones that supplied the equipment?

There seems to be a common goal here for all to train and police each other in order to gain safe & correct installations.

GLENN_14

hi don

To clarify the trunk slammer issue. The problem is that the end user/homeowner/business owner, often do not understand the differences between the true professionals and the trunk slammers. All they see is a large price difference and then they run to the lowest price first. This problem gets worse when the economy sags and some machine tool worker gets laid off and then decides to go out and become a contractor. Not understanding the business and not having the proper training, they just serve to lower the bar we are trying to raise. If we could stop that from happening, then the industry in general would be much better off

GLENN_14

home depot catch 22

Unlike Home depot, which sells to a very diverse crowd, The hvac industry is suffering from fewer and fewer people in the business. This causes the wholsale community to do as much as possible to help people become more competent in this profession. Home depot does not worry about this profession. They SELL TO anybody

Home Depot Employee

Glenn


I don't take it personally, as I never have been a HD store employee.

Knowing all of the WNY wholesalers, I can name a few that have a strict policy on selling to non-contractors without DBA's and contractor accounts however, your chain of 28?; doesn't follow that rule as a group.

I never meant any attack on your position but can state with knowledge that your associates don't practice the same principles. Again I admire your fervor regarding training and sales policies and hope that you are proactive with your learning sessions for contractors but, I agree you can only do so much.

Too many BM’s look at short term gains when selling retail and overlook the damages caused to their contractor base yet, again when reviews come around and the P&L doesn’t make MS or MD smile, many will succumb to the quick sale at decent margins.

With regards to my name, what difference does it make? I picked it only after reading a few postings about what HD does, when in fact most is misconception including being able to walk in and purchase Trane equipment-NOT. No offense to Rod, but would you take sound advise from a guy named HotRod without knowing his background?

Please if reading HotRod, you’re the best!

However on some other sites frequented by consumers, would you take sound heating advise from someone named PyroPaul, FireitupFred, Flamer or sparky?

Supply House Rick

GLENN_14

HOME DEPOT IMPOSTER

No offense taken. I know about the pressure to sell more.... I also refuse to hide when it comes to my identity because I believe what I am saying is right. I suspect from your last post that you are rep of some sort. You know too many bits and pieces not to be in that type of position. Perhaps someday we can continue this discussion over a beer or two...

Home Depot Employee_2

now your talking

Ein Prositt!

John Pemerton

Where

Based on the posted comments I assume your question is; why Manufacturers are not adding comments and are they visiting this site?

I can not, nor would I attempt speak for other manufacturers; however I can say that we at Lochinvar consider The Wall and its members a valuable source of information and insight. Not only do I personally enjoy reading the comments, discussions, and watching a group of professionals help others when they have a question, the comments often offer insights to issues that you feel are important.

My Service Technicians, Assistant Service Manager, and I each visit the wall at least once daily; however we rarely post a response directly if a person has a question. It is my experience that the typical individuals posting on the Wall are extremely bright and competent professionals; however as Home Depot Employee stated it is difficult to judge the experience level of a person by their posting name.

If we see a comment pertaining to Lochinvar it is our practice to contact the person by email and offer them the opportunity to speak to my Assistant Manager or myself directly. This allows us to concentrate on their particular issue and we have the opportunity to determine the experience level of the person on the other end of the phone and the best way to help them.

I have spoken to some very experienced contractors that way and as a result we have had several individuals visit the factory to explore some of their thoughts on our products further. I have also spoken to less experienced individuals that needed more than a comment I could post to help them through an issue. I hope this has answered your question adequately and thank you Dan for providing an enjoyable and valuable communication forum.

John Pemerton
National Service Manager
Lochinvar Corporation

scott markle_2

Home Depo \"associate\"

Your moniker has been confusing me for awhile. Associate is correct HD corporate speak. I was almost ready to suggest that you consider other employment options, as you just seemed a bit too smart for the floor at HD. I'm sure they have some talented people at upper level positions but communicating in this sort of environment would certainly be off limits. I once got kicked out of a home depot for having a camera with me, paranoid corporate drones, not what you strike me as being.

Home Depot Employee

Thanks for the complement (I think)

I almost got kicked out for voicing my concerns in their plumbing dept. (they had no 3/4” x 1/2” black tees or a place on the shelf to even stock them).

HD hasn’t seen their worse yet with 100’s more at exec levels to be laid off; lower inventories ahead and questionable quality items on shelf will only worsen.

I have never been a guy that seeks recognition and in fact enjoy the quiet life. Perhaps that will change someday soon as while I am still very young (40’s), my career may start up again due to near boredom and interested employers calling me bringing me out of retirement.

Chas_4

As part of Tech Support for Energy Kinetics I "lurk" at about a half dozen sites. I don't respond to anything unless 1) it's something that could be of help to another tech with a similar issue or 2) it's definitely misinformation about the system.

If a homeowner needs help I will contact them via e-mail in an effort to rectify the situation.

I will not get involved with any comments about non EK products unless it is in regard to equipment I am familiar with from having serviced it or our company offers it for sale with our systems. In any event I will not put down or criticize another manufacturer's product.

don_185

Only in

Only in your forty and already retired.I'm going to keep a real close eye on your post for now on and see if I can learn something.

GLENN_14

don i agree

Mr home depot must have done something very right to be retired in his forties.......did he invent global warming and alternitive refrigerants...hehehe

don_192

Hey Glenn

I think that was Al Gore....

GLENN_14

DON

i forgot gore had the market cornered,.... just trying to figure out how to retire early like depot and still eat....

G.Blue

Retire

Very smart men marry wealthy women. Nothing wrong with the benefits that brings! EX: John Kerry

Home Depot Employee

Its easy

Buy before a Republican is elected and sell before a Democrat gets in office.

Also, recognize a recession coming or better yet convert agressive stocks to bonds like I did a month before 911, and then buy again low.