All the Wilo hoopla.

Unknown

How do you figure I`m being only critical???<BR>I asked a legitimate question, and only asked a knowledgeable answer, is that a sin?<BR>I also said I like Mark too!<BR><BR>Dave

Unknown

Do I think,

it`s a great product?,,,, sure. Are one of our well known "wallies" promoting-it(working there),,,sure.
But is there really a difference?. I see Taco, Grundfos and other manufacturers with similar products also looking-out for we the consumer!
Do they do something we don`t?
So I ask,,what does Wilo do differently?
I like Mark too!

Dave

Jed_2

Dave

What do Taco and Grundfos have that equals the Wilo Stratos?

Jed

MechTech_2

Wilo Market

We do alot of work for builders (low & high-rise) who build to Energy Star and LEED standards, and both the Stratos and Eco help our customers hopefully gain extra points toward their rating. We have actually picked up a few new customers, just by being ahead of the curve, and introducing the ECM pump technology to them. The Wilo guys have been really good helping us understand the technology, so we try to support their other products when we can.

Al Crawford
Canadian Infloor

Unknown

Jed

Look at the curves, they`re there,,,,Grundfos and Taco have many products that coincide with Wilo, I don`t see any "uniqueness"(if that`s a word).
If Wilo wants a market share, fine, competition is always welcome,,,,but I don`t see what they have the others don`t.

Dave

Unknown

Al Crawford Canadian Infloor

Hey man,,,,I`m Canadian too, and I commend Wilo on their competitiveness,,,,,but I see no real advantage.
Viessmann is a great product also,,,but in my area, few will pay the large difference price-wise for such a small advantage over the competition.
So my question remains.

Dave

MechTech_2

LEED

The builders who are after LEED status regardless of the level, are usually scrambling for the extra points without breaking the bank, and the Stratos is a no brainer. In fact, start eliminating the pressure differential bypass valves, and the associated labor and dollar difference isn't that much.

[Deleted User]

What they have that others don't here in North American

I was first introduced to the DC-ECM motor concept in a circulator by Grundfos at ISH over 10 years ago. I was PROMISED that we'd be seeing them on this side of the pond within the year, with required UL rating intact....

Am STILL Waiting for their UL approved version, which I hear is "just around the corner"...

I can't speak for Taco 00 series of variable pumps because I've never used one, but I can tell you that when comparing wire to water efficiency, the 00 series of pumps is not even on the same planet as the Ecos and Stratos pumps. It would be unwise, in fact unfair to compare the two. If the truth be known, I think I planted a bug in Taco's ear (Dave Sweet) about the need for a variable speed pump, and to their credit they introduced a small card that would do VS, based on certain parameters.

I think the problem is the inherent inefficiency of the 00 pumps design. It doesn't make much difference according to people I know who have applied the product.

Wilo has their UL approval, they have a small residential version (Ecos) and a wide range of commercial pumps all the way up tp 3 HP that can be programmed to maintain either contant flow, constant pressure differential, or constant temperature differential. If more than one pump, it requires a 2 wire buss interconnection.

They have rightfully captured the attention of the North American market, and have opened the flood gates for their competition to bring in DC/ECM motorized pumps with the ability to be programmed to do whatever we, the working public ask them to do.

They have done a lot, and will continue to do so thru education, and continuous product enhancement.

They've set a FINE example for all the others to follow.

And no, I don't work for them. I have just been shown their ways, their product offering and believe strongly in them.

90% of the pumps we installed last year on my projects were Wilo, and we had not 1 failure. Wish I could say the same for their competition.

Good company backed by GREAT people.

Try them. You'll like them.

ME

Unknown

Cdn Infloor

Eliminate the PD valve?,,,I`d like to see that one!!

Dave

MechTech_2

Bypass Valve

Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the pump would modulate down as the zones closed, hence not creating excessive pressure, so I can eliminate the need for the pressure bypass valve. I'm I overlooking something? Wouldn't be the first time!

Al

Unknown

Thanks for explaining Mark,

Don`t ask me how, but I knew you would chime-in.
Don`t get me wrong,,,,I understand, and very much respect Wilos claim to fame,,but I must admit, I have not tried one yet so I have trouble seeing the diff.

Dave

[Deleted User]

You are correct...

in fact, installing a PD bypass would cornfuse the living crap out of the poor thing....

None needed.

ME

Unknown

Hey Al

Tell me after the projects done, ghost flow is`nt an issue. Are you using these in condos like a zone valve?

Dave

Unknown

Pressure Bypass Valve

Al, you have it 100%. Both Stratos and Stratos ECO ramp down as flow decreases instead of creating excessive shut off heads typical of constant speed circs, thus a PD valve is not required. Also you do not have to wire zone valves back to the ECO (residential Stratos) either. It's shut off wattage is 5.8.

I'll be demonstrating this and additional features at ASHRAE. We're running training seminars at the booth on the hour, using the Brain Box of course.

JohnNY

CDN Infloor, you're not mistaken...

that's exactly what it does.

This thread is ridiculous and I can't believe I'm a part of it, but....
John Seigenthaler does a great job of explaining what's different about Wilo technology.

Just take his latest seminar (w/ Dan Holohan at ASHRAE in NYC next week, by the way) and you'll get it.

I'm still a big fan of Taco and I always will be.
That doesn't mean there isn't room for other products in my professional arsenal of stuff.

I put in different brands of gas-fired water heaters, too.

Now there's a product without an ounce of difference from one to the other!


There's room for everyone in this world, ya' know.




To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

MechTech_2

One pump

multiple zone valves. The first project was actually a winery, they had to maintain a constant temperture in the vatts as they produced the wine. The challange was that they could use 3 vatts one day, and thirty the next! We set the Stratos on a pressure variable curve, and as they tuned the vatts on and off the pump would adjust accordingly. We have positive shut off at the valve, and the Stratos wouldn't create excessive pressure to open the closed valves. So far, so good. How do you spell Vatt?

Al

Unknown

JohnNY

Why do you feel this thread is ridiculous?
I`m a tradesman too and (until now), no-one has explained any difference to me. Was I wrong in asking???

Dave

Unknown

I expected as much,

Seems like if your a Canadian with a "negative question", we`re ignored,,,ask me how I knew that.
Great to know Wilo is doing something on this side of the globe,,,(my Woleseley supplier) has never heard of them,,,is that my fault???

Dave

JohnNY

You're not asking.

You're being critical.

Personally, I just prefer that the company that employs my friend Mark does well.

Have a good weekend.


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

joel_19

Dave

Wilo brought what no one else ECM motor!!!!! we are talking WAY WAY less power that is the difference plus what everybody else said.

Weezbo

an elephant...

has curves also buh i would not confuse them with a hooters gal in a bazillion years.

the VV VS taco is a pretty good deal and is available buh you have to go a long way to convince me that it is the same thing as a Wilo programmable.

The Grundfos has some highly well crafted circs also and unlike Taco or Wilo it is rated at 150 psi. each circulator has its specific benefits and certainly function within that realm of the specifications...however there are definite delineations and that is what makes The work we do at least interesting ...

to make it real simple for everyone to decrease the operating costs over the life time of systems that have either zoning or changing load requirements that do not correspond to any particular size circulator, Wilo made some circulators that basically ride on a hover craft say rather than wheels i would really liked to have installed some three years ago ... it makes perfect sense to me that when you do not need a circulator zooming along to dial it down, the dialing the thing down part would require a great deal of time . however there are "Tricks" to it, like various by passes , valves or controls ,however, they are not without further costs and investments of time...

Speaking of time, i tend to think it is time to send some to Alaska...*~/:)

humor me on this one ..while we just had a heat wave to -1 F and the snow flooded down last night during a Chinook,...for the most part, this would be a great place for Wilo to distribute a few :)we like to save dollars to buy groceries and pay bills here ,also.

there are probably enough applications where these circs would be helping systems to function more economically that some one could simply offer circulator change outs and stay fully and gainfully employed .

i might even become enthusiastic about zoning with circulators nah...pump habby is for some one else...

just got a phone call from my friend Fred...he was called today to a place that would be wonderful as he is taking the "system "and deep sixing it. the lady is basically freezing and paying plenty for the opportunity. undersized radiation troublesome burner, ventilation details that sound horrific, everything on the el cheapo on the install , no purge or valves on the circs, undersized distribution piping,....well, lets see...

next time you see cars sliding about the road on wheels consider how much safer it would be for them to be gliding about on a cushion of air that could be redirected in an instant to hover quietly away from the problems....i see Wilo circs somewhat like gliders, they zoom along without burning up a lot of energy....

maybe that is what they should name a circulator "Glider".

Unknown

joel

Fine,,,but I still don`t see the "super" difference.
BTW can you understand what Weezbo is talking about? Elephants lost me, that`s even more strange than Canadian comments,,but if there is a key, please let me know!!

Dave

Dave Stroman

I have installed a few of them. No real difference from their basic pumps and Taco or Grundfos from what I can see. Wilo has a SS shaft I guess. No idea if that is better or not. And their check valves are in their flanges, not in the pump housing. I sat in on a Wilo training class more than a year ago. They talked mostly about the Eco and the energy savings. I was pretty fired up about them and at the end of the class I was ready to place my first order. I was told, "Well, ah, they are not available in the US yet". Kind of took the wind out of my sails. Not sure still if they are available. Still would like to try them but pretty happy with my red ones.

Dave Stroman

Unknown

Thanks Dave,

At least someone is on my side,,,,,but if Eatherton gets at you I`m finished!!

Dave

Mark Eatherton

Places to get Wilo in Denver....

Charles D. Jones, Low Energy Systems, and soon I think Water Systems Inc.

They're out there.

ME

Dave Stroman

I have not had a problem finding suppliers who have them. I got mine from Martz Supply. But are the Eco pumps available now?

Dave Stroman

Mark Eatherton

I'll have to defer to Wilo....

All the jobs I've been doing have been commercial, and or large residential.

Contact Tim Lindstrom with Engineered Products for a firm answer.

ME

Weezbo

)

Dave did you ever think,... i might have thought the same thing about you?

don't answer that it doesn't need an answer..its a trick question

Unknown

Gees,,,,,

I wonder what I was talking about?
Eatherton speaks,,,,,things are gospel.

Dave

Dave Stroman

I think Tim mentioned a couple of months ago that they were "on the boat on their way over here".

Dave Stroman

Unknown

Eco Availability

Gents, look for ECO during the first quarter of 2008. We'll have some "Beta" zero production run models operating at ASHRAE.

Appologies for the delay...

Abro

ECO Info

How many watts will an ECO use along a pump curve roughly that of a Taco 007 (which is about 75 watts)? Will the ECO be 115V?

Unknown

ECO Question

It's maxium wattage is 59 at full speed, min is 5.8 (amps @ 115 volts are from 0.9 down to 0.1). As most pumps are oversized it's doubtful they will ever run at full speed though (that wattage includes the drive). Even if it's set at maxium head it will still regulate speed based on system demand without any external sensors (like it's big brother, the Stratos).

We will have 2 cast iron types, 2 bolt residential, both types (bolt plane parellel to pump shaft and visa versa, in 115 and 230 volt plus a bronze version as well).

Weezbo

it certainly seems that the due date is remarkably

close to the condensing oil boilers that we kept being assured were going to be here in a boat any day ..:) sorry ,it just seems that it must have undergone some last min adjustments for it to be 2008 and only the stars in sight.:)

right now i am watching a program on Cold and superfluids. superconductivity and strange paradoxes difficult to accept

the Boz -
Einstein Condensate where all the things are at rest and everywhere at once )

Unknown

Well there ya go,

hopefully "the boat"will make it to everyone to save the pennies people hope to gain on a "not tried and true product"!!
Forgive me for saying, but I`ll stay with ole reliable Grundfos or Taco,,at least I know where they are.

Dave

Weezbo

Good man Dave

i fell right into your plot to help me

Unknown

Bill,

Please don`t get me wrong,,I`m not trying to "knock" Wilo or anyone,,,just trying to understand this "huge" difference their people are attempting to convey.

Dave

ScottMP

Dave

Thanks for asking the question. Once agian I learned alot reading this.

Now that being said, maybe its not a HUGE differene. You may be looking for Wilo to re-invent the wheel whne maybe, all they've done is make it better.

Small changes can bring about alot. We look for a little better every install, so the sum of the parts may make quantum leaps.

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

stacie b_2

because

you keep asking the same question, even though it has been pointed out Wilo offers VS capability that the other pumps haven't brought to the table yet...thus, the difference you are asking about.

mtfallsmikey

Interesting!

I've got an application coming up where the Wilo ECM would be a good fit...can I beta test one?

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_8

Interesting thread

There's nothing wrong with liking and using multiple brands IMHO. I have friends in all three mfgrs mentioned so far and also in a 4th brand. Friends lead to loyalty, so I've made it a point to learn the curves and use what's appropriate on our designs/installs.

As for Taco & the European technology? The competition has awakened the sleeping giant and Johnny White has taken this bull by the horns. Millions have been invested and millions will follow. Taco is answering the call - I've seen what's coming via their R&D dept and they've asked for serious input from contractors - and they've listened - and they've acted upon those inputs. The competition is benefitting all of us who toil in the field raising better crops of hydronic bounty.

So, my hat's off to them all!