System 2000 Install

Jim_64

Hank ...

Really says a mouthful doesn't he? I appreciate your honesty Hank .. as I said, I think that I made a good choice. I'm on vacation this week, I bet the boiler hasn't even come on, since no one is home! If it were my Weil, it will have come on to keep the water hot.. I'm aware that others don't like s-2000 and they go to great lengths to put it down. Like anything else, not everyone is happy with every product!! I saw the small wire on top of the water heater and began to question if it was electric. Can you just give me a little detail on how the DHW tank runs? You've explained it well, just update me on what the wire does. Thanks again..

Jim_139

The wire is connected to the input (left) side of the manager. It comes from the tank thermostat which is located behind the cover near the bottom of the tank. If you want to adjust the hot water temperature that's where you would do it.

laurence salvatore_2

on going contrversey

The piping is a little ameturish, but we have all seen worse. Notice the heat trap on the water heater. When was the last time anybody did that? All the cons seem to be hung up on the $7000.00 or so price tag. My company can't do a good multi zone system for less nor would I want to.

john_83

You keep thinking its a better water heater lets face it its a glorified electric water heater. And as far as zone valves you should keep a spare circ on hand because when the one pump stops you have no heat hopefully your plumber put isolater valves on both sides of the pump so at midnight you can make a quick change out. You wouldnt have that problems with circs just one zone would be down. Also wait till that system manager goes bad and they do!! wait till you see the price tag for that baby. Also you keep reffering to the weil running at ever call for dhw that not the boilers fault it the original installer. WEil Burnham Buderus have nothing to worry about because of their superior Quality. And hank you answered my question thank you but all i know is that when my indirect goes i cant change it with an electric water heater. Good luck with your high priced tin boiler. Also i hope you dont have hard water or youll be flushing that heat exchanger alot i wonder if they told you that.

Tom Hopkins

John

How much electricity would those additional circs consume over their lifespan? I would guess enough to buy another circ when it's needed in 10 tears or so! When a circ goes on a ZV system you would still get some gravity circulation not so with a circulator,unless you open the flow valve(kind of tough with an IFC)
I would make the decision on ZV vs. Circs on a system basis and a cost/benefit basis not because I may need a new circ in 10 years.

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laurence salvatore_2

ad infinitem

Zone vavles, circulators, it all depends on the job both have their advantages an disadvantages you guys all need to relax, its summer and the wether in the norhteast quadrent has been sepectacular. Go outside and look at it, or better yet; take the kids swimming. Not a bad idea I'm outa here.

Paul Fredricks_3

Uh?

Since circulators fail at least once a year? Boy, are we reaching. Personally, I prefer zone valves. If the circ fails(rare), the gravity heat will keep me warm enough and the pipes won't freeze. Try that with a flo-check.

Time to stop trying to make someone feel bad about something they own.

john_83

say whatyou want but circs are a better system on any system. zones valves just save you time. for tyhe amount of money circs cost to run i think its worth it

Steve_153

I just scanned

the responses to the original inquiry. I will tell you that you made a wise decision. Every one of my customers that has a properly installed Sys 2K loves it. They also have the lowest fuel bill possible. Nothing uses less oil and nothing is anywhere near as quiet. Steel is and always has been the metal of choice for a boiler, just show me 1 high pressure cast iron boiler.

Ken_40

The troops have been summoned...

The gang emails begin. Anyone who ever worked for, bought or whose uncle's cousin worked for them - has all the circus folks out en mass.

Gotta give 'em credit. They know how to get the word out. Connie was dead on. "Shrill" is kinder phrase than I would offer.

Admit it. You have to worry about stuff like this.

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Jim_64

The Troops ...???

Ken .. once again you continue to show your hate for the s-2000. You continue to down their sales tactics, and show your dislike for the product. You and your "hate squad" aren't really showing me anything. You have never .. I mean never .. expressed why you dislike this product so much. Looks like steel boilers have been around a long time (from the 30's in fact) and are also reliable. You're not knocking any of the other manufacturers ... but you keep knocking this one. WHY? People have it, they like it, it works and it saves fuel. I have heard a few comments on the install .. Heat Doctors has been around, and I didn't find anything with the BBB. I got references from clients who have told me they support the product. SO KEN what's the DEAL? Why all the hate for s-2000? I haven't seen you dog any of the other manufacturers .. why this one. I'd like to understand why you always have bad words for them ..????

Maine Ken

What if it was a Flat Rate S2000?????

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heatboy

Or................

.....a Viessmann 2000!

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Steve_153

It's too bad

you have to make it personal. But that's typical when you can't argue intelligently.

Jim_139

The only time a system manager costs the homeowner a lot of money is when the company replacing it has an extremely high markup on parts, either because they are not aware that there is a very good core credit for the old one or feel that because it's an EK, they can charge that high price. After all, everybody says they're expensive, therefore it must be true.

Anyone who reads the product warranty can plainly see that after the initial 5 year warranty it's covered for life with a rebuild program. The reasoning behind this is that not only will you save a lot of money on fuel, but parts replacement, if necessary, should save money also.

Ron will not have an issue with scale in the heat exchanger because there is a Scale Stopper in the cold water makeup that will prevent it.

TK03

Let's get on track

I can’t believe this post has gone on as long as it has. Let’s look at the whole picture. Could the old boiler have been re-piped and save money? Maybe. Would it have looked and worked better? Maybe. If the owner would have taken that route the boiler would have failed eventually and needed replaced. The re-pipe job could have been kept intact for the new boiler. It is money spent now and later. The owners made the decision to do it all now. The choice was his, if he was given the choice. That is the only thing that makes a difference here. In 30 years I have seen jobs replaced which did not need replaced. I have also as we all have seen jobs which should have been replaced and wasn’t. This all comes down to ethics and money. Ethics on the contractors part and money on the homeowners part.
The sad thing I see here is bashing of products. Everybody here has their favorites. All manufacturers make decent products in a market they want to be in. They choose what market they want in and what price point they want to sell in. There are little differences in their products. A point or two in efficiency, or a feature here and not there. What the heck does it matter. The support from one company changes from area to area. I read about bad service here and good service there. It all depends on the local rep’s or salesman. You pick the boiler of your choice and install it as a professional, using all the updated piping practices, control strategy, proper venting, exceeding codes, etc. You will have a system, which saves the home owner money providing all the above was done. The least efficient compared the most efficient boiler really does not make that much of a difference. We all have stories where a boiler was installed and saved the homeowner 40%-70%. Some of these go back before condensing products. The only real savings you get from the boiler itself is proper sizing and proper piping. The saving difference from 86% to 93% is minimal. The savings from the 60% or less to 86% or 93% is tremendous.
When looking at money spent and return on money, there is not much difference in all the products on the market today. Spend more on the product for increased efficiency, save more fuel and require more service. Spend less, burn more fuel and spend less on service. It all comes out in the wash as the saying goes. The saving from one product to another is minimal. The piping, sizing and control strategy is where the saving is.
So let’s stop bashing companies and trying to sway everyone to your way of thinking. Let’s support all in the industry. We all believe in the products we install and would like everyone to install the products we choose as they are the best. Right? That’s what everyone should be using. Right? I guess we should all be driving Ford’s also, Right?

Jim_64

Heatman ...

You hit the nail on the head! Yes I had contractors in a year ago to discuss repairing the old boiler .. they didn't want to because they were afraid the pipe would break (the large one on top of boiler) and the system would have to be replaced (at their cost). Not one .. but two different contractors told me this. So I lived with it for another year while I put the funds together. At that point I decided to replace (a year ago). I had 8 people come in this year to show me boilers because I wanted to replace .. I didn't ask about repairing .. I wanted to replace. I figured the old boiler would die at some point (it was over 20 years old) so why fix and then replace again in a few years?? I just wanted info on the s-2000, good or bad because I was considering it... then all the bashing started!!

Jim_64

Heatman...

You hit the nail on the head! Yes I had contractors in a year ago to discuss repairing the old boiler .. they didn't want to because they were afraid the pipe would break (the large one on top of boiler) and the system would have to be replaced (at their cost). Not one .. but two different contractors told me this. So I lived with it for another year while I put the funds together. At that point I decided to replace (a year ago). I had 8 people come in this year to show me boilers because I wanted to replace .. I didn't ask about repairing .. I wanted to replace. I figured the old boiler would die at some point (it was over 20 years old) so why fix and then replace again in a few years?? I just wanted info on the s-2000, good or bad because I was considering it... then all the bashing started!!

john_83

I'm not bashing the boiler as much as the company that sells it with an electric water heater.

jim_57

John

You aren't paying attention. It DOES NOT come with an electric water heater. It comes with a storage tank. The hot water is made with a plate heat exchanger. Repeat after me, it's not an electric water heater.

TK03

Didn't your mother tell you "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". We need to stop all the negative comments and keep it to the positive. Most comments are opinions anyway, or from being mis-informed. Anybody's opinions and comments are formed from their personal experiences. Others may have had good experiences. If everybody had the same likes and dislikes there would be only a few boiler companies. They all make decent products or would not be around. One bad experience should not ruin your opinions of all the manufactures models. They may have had a problem with a product line and you condemn all the models. Maybe a bad experience with a particular person and you want to condemn the company. Let’s get real and give everybody the due they deserve. We as people are too quick to jump on the negatives and forget the good, jump to conclusions, push our products on others and forgive. Let’s just pass on good ideas and practices. Make our industry the best industry to work in. Make HVAC the industry of choice for young tech’s. Quoting the keeper of this board (I think that is where I heard it)”Tech’s have diarrhea of the mouth”. Let’s stop it now.

john_83

Maybe thats what they tell their installers but cmon lets be honest just look at it its a glorified electric water heater, lets not make it any more then it really is.

jim_57

John

You must be either one of the uninformed that Heatman refers to or you too have a grudge against us and choose to continue the negativity against the company. It's one thing to state the opinion that you do not like a product but it's an entirely different matter to intentionally continue with an untruth.

If you don't like us you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, since I don't believe I have ever met you I choose to believe you are simply uninformed and don't wish to take the trouble to look for yourself. If you did that you might have to apologize.

Sorry guys for the harsh words, but as previously stated by others a lot of homeowners visit this site for accurate information. Bad information based on either a dislike of a product or simple ignorance that refuses to stand corrected does not show the good side of any of us.

I have been an oil tech for over 35 years and have serviced a lot of equipment I didn't really like or thought was poorly designed, but running down that equipment to the homeowner as an excuse for not being able to repair it doesn't make me a better tech, just a mouthy one.

Have a happy Fourth guys.

john_83

Jim

You Dont know me to say what i do or dont know. And your right this is a site for people to get good info. All i know is that i've worked on 2000's and have spoken to their support when i have ran into problems, if i do not know something i ask, so for you to question me or my thoughts is a little off line. And for your info 2000 will tell you if the heater goes bad that you can replace it with a electric water so for your info i got that right from the source. Wow thirty five years expierance i respect that over the years you must have alot of knowledge to pass on . I dont feel i have to prove myself to you or any body else, i know what i can do. I've seen plenty of thse units with both 2000 tanks and electric water heater tanks no difference, thats all i was saying i was'nt questioning his choice he has to live with that. Hopefully he has gret success with it.

Supply House Rick

S2000 Tank

We have had several S2000 installing companies in our area over the years, it's now down to one. When they or the others had a tank leak, they replaced it with a 40 gallon electric water heater. I seen quite a few replacements of their "indirect" and it sure looks like an electric water tank. Can someone explain the difference between the two and can you interchange them and have it work? Thanks...

Rick

jim_57

The tank System 2000 uses is made for them. The 40 gallon tank has no tappings where the elements would normally be installed. The glass lining is heavier than what's found in must standard electric water heaters. There is only one aquastat as opposed to two. The dip tube also is shorter, 20" as opposed to going to the bottom of the tank. John, you can't connect line voltage to it and expect it to make hot water, therefore it would seem reasonable to state that it is not an electric water heater.

To use an electric wh as a replacement, bypass both elements and the upper aquastat, wiring directly to the bottom one. Also, it's important to either modify the new dip tube to the 20" length or use the one from the old tank. Reconnect the piping exactly as on the original.

laurence salvatore_2

yada yada yada

You guys, the indirecton this system is the brazed plate heat exchanger. The tank is just for storage. The brazed plate heat exchanger makes the water hot, the tank keeps it hot and ready to use. Those glass lined storage tanks are very inexpensive so even if they last only ten years or so, you can put in four or fivr for what a good stainless indirect costs. As for the brazed plate heat exchanger I have only seen two that leaked since 1991. We have more than our share of S-2000 systems here on the Gold Coast of Connecticut. They are not my first choice and the installers around here don't want to come back and servive the wet side, bur that's all right with me. The S-2000's don't seem to have any higher frequency of repair than other boilers.

john_83

Jim 35

Jim you keep referring like nobody around but you has ever installed a 2000 system i understand you have 35 years exp but im sure me and others have seen there fair share of these units. So i would hope after changing out quite a few of these leaking quote on quote storage tanks with electric water heaters as recommended by 2000 i would understand that they do not run on line voltage. All i am trying to say is and the end of the day their dhw tank is pretty much an electric water heater a little beefed up.

chapchap70_2

Good grief

John,

Look at the e-mail address of Jim H and that will tell you how silly your posts appear.

john_83

john_83

> John,

>

> Look at the e-mail address of Jim H and

> that will tell you how silly your posts appear.

john_83

chap chap!!!!!!!!!!

So then why would he try and say its not a glorified elec heater, because they dont get any closer to actually being one. Typical s2000 represenative trying to make it more then it really is. I bet if you ask who makes it it will turns out a electric water heater tank made by somebody else for 2000. SO therrrrr chap chap in the end its a beefed up elec water heater. Show me something that states other wise.

chapchap70_2

Low voltage wiring connected from the water tank aquastat to the boiler control for the purpose of powering on the burner to heat the boiler water which then heats the domestic water via the brazed plate heat exchanger in the storage tank loop equals a glorified electric water heater. Yeah, I'll buy that.

john_83

Chap chap

Let me fill you in so you can follow a little better. Nobody is questioning the purpose of the tank and how they are utilizing it, It is the tank itself. Hope that made it easier to follow. Gotta go now im fabricating up a coil inside of a electric water heater so i can sell it as a indirect. I'll buy that!!!!!!!!!

Supply House Rick

Edit

Not my place to question...

DanHolohan

.