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System 2000 Install

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jim_57
jim_57 Member Posts: 41
The boys at Heat Doctors will take really good care of you and you'll have an install to be proud of. Could the Weil achieve 85% SS efficiency? Sure, but more often than not, especially during the non-heating and shoulder seasons it's not at steady state. Congratulations.
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  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Check this out!

    Guys thanks for your help. System 2000 being installed tomorrow. Replacing my Weil 68 with a wood burning stove attached (to the same flute, no less). The tank was an over flow for the stove, all hot water came from a coil in the boiler, which had to go through the stove to reach the house! I've never used the stove, thank god!! Please check out the second photo of the zone wiring! I think it was done by the previous home owner. I had no idea of what a mess I had until I started checking into the work show on this site! I will post photo's of the install by Heat Doctor of Hyde Park (upstate NY, not LI) tomorrow. I will let you know if I have the savings in a year. Thanks again!!!
  • Tim P._2
    Tim P._2 Member Posts: 47
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    Will you be replacing the EMT used as the T&P drain? :)

    Tim
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    Why?

    Why are you getting rid of the W/M?

    Other than the fact that it has suspect wiring and controls, that boiler is capable of 85% s.s efficiency, with decent controls could easily equal the S-2000 AFUE efficiency and the wood stove, were it connected properly, could be a life saver when oil goes to $4.00/gallon.

    What was wrong with what's there? Other than complete lack of maintenance?



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  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    Would ANY boiler...

    get SS efficiency year-round, without a controller designed to allow that?

    My question is NOT why an S-2000. My question is why not an inexpensive controller and minor re-pipe - rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    Was/is there something major wrong with the W/M? If not, it would be nice to know what drove the rather expensive decision to replace, rather than offer options...

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  • Jim_109
    Jim_109 Member Posts: 45
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    system 2000

    Why did you choose the system 2000? Which model?

    What is the complete cost of installation and removing yurou existing equipment? THANKS!
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Why I replaced

    The old system was hooked into that large wood burning stove and that caused me to lose heat. Also the large pipe at the top right of the Weil was rusted out, and another dealer told me to re-pipe they would not be willing to do because if it broke the system would have to be replaced. Was it legal to have the stove and the boiler on the same flue?
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Ken ...

    Also .. I have been re-doing the home. I bought the house as a fixer upper. I've remodeled 3 bathrooms, the kitchen, foyer, dining and living rooms. Also I converted half the basement into a large family room, put in new doors and 21 energy efficient windows (argon gas, low -e and so on). The house has more than doubled in value in the past 5 years .. I'm looking at the new heating system as a major investment. We plan to stay here a long time and it would also cut my fuel bills.. The System 2000 is in and I must say it is extremely quiet. It hasn't come on since they tested it .. couple of hours .. unheard of with the weil and the coil. I also found out two of my zone valves were in backwards (which caused the loud banging) Here are the pictures!
  • john_83
    john_83 Member Posts: 76
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    Its a amazing how anywhere you go in the state it looks like every 2000 boiler was installed by the same guy. Not knocking the boiler but there is really no art to it. Not to mention they use an electric water heater for dhw. I much rather an install that has its own signature. Its funny how the weil did the job for so long and you were so easy to abandon it. The new weil ultra oil is quite the boiler.
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Really ???

    How can you say the weil did the job for me? It was here when I bought the house. It was noisy, and burned tons of oil (1118 gallons last year). It wasn't my choice .. but if all the installs look the same then I'm happy .. that means they installed it right!! I had crazy wiring, zone valves in backwards and decaying pipes ... I think I made a good choice. When testing the zones .. the boiler came on to push heat to my living room, when we dropped the thermostat .. the circulator stayed on pushing heat to the zone. NOTHING LEFT IN THE BOILER .. I WAS IMPRESSED!!! I've run my dishwasher, my daughter has taken a shower and I'm sitting in the basement in the family room. The boiler hasn't come on once!! I can't see into the future, but if it were my weil .. it came on when no water was running and EVERY time the hot water came on .. I just may save some oil!!!
  • Norm Harvey
    Norm Harvey Member Posts: 684
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    Why some people will still be kicking and screaming about system 2000 in their grave, I don't know. But I am sure you will be very happy with the performance.

    The install could be a little neater, but each installer has his own level of anal retentiveness.

    Heres one of mine:
    http://www.indoil.com/images/nunes1b.jpg
    (disregard the vacuum breaker that a plumber working in the house took it upon himself to add when he didnt notice the one I had already installed at the top of the DHW tank)

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    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • rich p_4
    rich p_4 Member Posts: 25
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    you will be pleased

    have you noticed how much cooler your basement is with out all that extra heat?
    Congrats and keep us posted on the fuel savings!
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Not kicking and screaming yet!

    I'm not kicking and screaming about the EK2000 yet. I've had this thing installed exactly 1 day .. today .. so I won't know if its saving me anything yet. All I can say is this .. the basement is cooler and much quieter! Maybe this thing came on (but I haven't heard it!) and it's been about 5 hrs. I never had a hot water heater before (in ten years of owning homes?!!!) .. so when the hot water came on so did the boiler (coil). I will keep everyone posted if there are savings .. btw .. your install looks great.. did you see my old system? that was busted!!!
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Jim ..

    Sorry I missed your post .. I have the Frontier EK-1 w/40 gallon DHW tank .. total job cost $7825 (hope I'm not giving away trade secrets!) I had about 5 quotes on the EK 2000 from 7300 to 10500. Heat Doctors wasn't the lowest, but I felt comfortable with the guys giving me the quote. I checked them out and they came back clean. The main competitor was one of the big companies from the area. But they removed all of my old stuff .. took out the stove (approx 1000 lbs) and the guys that came over were cool. I have a back porch and they ran the vent pipe with no problem ..and extended my clothes dryer vent while in there!!! If their service is just as good I would highly recommend them .. but again .. I've only had the system 1 day .. today!!!
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    Let me be sure I understand...

    You "invested" well over $5,000 in a boiler few have heard of, installed by someone who convinced you this was an "upgrade," from a brand that has more recognition, over 100 years of manufacturing excellence, made of cast iron (which is known to be virtually indestructible) for a steel boiler with the cheapest form of heat exchanger made and the indirect you should have turned to as the simple fix it should have been.

    Removed the wood stove from the heating system so you are now stuck with oil forever, because the W/M was whatever you were told it was, to convince you to replace it, and this for lack of information as to how simple a new indirect and alternate venting system for the wood stove (and perhaps a few valves to keep it properly isolated from the primary system)?

    And now, we can all be sure you'll save a fortune in fuel, and you'll vouch for the incredible performance of the S-2000 - becoming yet another of their poster boys, jumping in whenever possible to praise EK and the S-2000...

    When in fact, had they done their job propery, they would have told you this:

    "We can install an indirect, a few simple controls, reconnect the wood stove properly and eliminate all the waste now in place, clean and adjust the existing boile and probably reduce your fuel costs by 40% and that would cost around $3000. OR...

    We could convince you what you have is junk, remove any possibility of ever heating with wood, install a new steel boiler, and that'll cost you: [fill in what this "deal" costs]

    If both parts of my fictional dialog were clearly stated, I have nothing bad to say about your choice. If however you never heard the rationale for simply fixing what you had, nor how beautifully it would function as a result, I feel badly.

    I suspect neither one of us will never know the answer. Which is also why I feel badly

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  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,752
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    couple items to address

    Make sure they support that expansion tank, I normally never put them on the horizontal but beyond that when it water logs, which it will, it will break the little 1/2" pipe connection it is hanging from and flood your basement. Besides that, not the neatest I have seen but not the worst.
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Ken

    Ken .. I know you have a thing against EK-2000, but if it works it works. It was my decision to have the wood burning stove removed, and I had 2 contractors come in before Heat Doctors to discuss fixing my old boiler. I was told that there was a large pipe on the top of the boiler (in the front on the right) which may have broken and I would have to replace the boiler anyway. The pipe was rusted and possibly damaged by hard water?? I may have been mislead (I'm a homeowner not a plumber) and I made the decision to replace. I looked at serveral boilers, Burnham v8, MPO, Weil, Baisi and Buderus. I'm aware of the 3 pass systems and the talk of cast iron vs. steel. I talked to references ... So I'd like to think I did my homework. As I said I'm not praising them yet ... I need to let it run a year and look at fuel savings. If I save money then I guess I'll be a "poster boy". If I save $1000 bucks a year on oil, this thing will pay for its self shortly and I've improved the value of my home. I don't know what you have against s-2000, but don't you think it's time to get over it and move on?
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    Had the \"correct\" job been done...

    That being fixing the existing and by far better made W/M boiler properly, installing an inexpensive control, and installing an indirect, on a timer - not as it was (it will run in the middle of the night pointlessly as it is now), you would have a better system than now, and saved enough money to pay for all your future fuel expenses for years.

    Of course you will reduce fuel consumption and basement heat dramatically with the new system; but not as much as you could have - had you been properly advised of other options costing less than half of what you did spend.

    Because you will save a fortune on fuel, you will join the ranks of the S-2000 "fan club" we are so well aware of. The truth however will never see the light of day. That being: ANY BOILER (INCLUDING THE ONE ALREADY THERE AND PAID FOR) WOULD HAVE PROVIDED EQUAL OR BETTER PERFORMANCE - had you simply made the corrections truly needed.

    And replacing that Weil McLain boiler was NOT one of those needs.

    Now the EK, S-2000 "boys" will point to you as one of their "poster boys," anectdotally suggest you are a living benefactor of their superior product's benefits largess, and never once mention they mis-lead you. Failed to adequately inform. Took 7+K from your wallet and delivered something that should have been accomplished for half that amount, and by someone who offered choices, not a grossly oversized, overpriced boiler they convinced you was "correct."

    Joining the ranks of those who praise the EK S-2000 is assumed. It is the twisted logic necessary to do so, that bothers me so.

    This is already a fate accomlis. But others may follow along this line of illogical thought, which is the only reason I post.

    I hope I am wrong, for your sake.

    The real question is: Were you told the problems you experienced were NOT related to the Weil McLain boiler at all, merely the way it was setup? If so, forget all I wrote. If not, welcome to the world of black magic, mirrors and the unethical.

    Of course permits were taken and inspections all completed?

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  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Ken

    You seem to be missing the point. I had 2 guys come in here and both did not want to fix the existing system. They felt if the pipe had broken, they would have had to replace my boiler at their cost. This was over a year ago. I never heard of the s-2000 until last month. I had already made the decision to replace. I called in 8 different guys, saw multiple boilers, talked to people and then made a decision. I knew we would never use the stove (lived here 5 years and never touched it!) According to you I could have repaired my old system for half the cost, but I felt I would be better servered by replacing. If the s-2000 pays for it's self in a few years in fuel savings, what have I lost? And after it pays for itself, I'll be saving money, which is the whole point. People who have it like it, I got good reports from this site on it. I really would like to know what s-2000 has done to you which makes you hate them with such a passion?
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    Ron, this is for you, but for for \"us\" even more

    Ron's experience is typical and sadly classic.

    And we wonder why we have TV stings, cartoons depicting tradesmen as bafoons and stories of unethical contractors outnumbering those who are by 10:1?

    Ron sought professional advice and was met with 2 guys who said they would not fix his leak. They would however, sell him a new boiler. Five to ten years from now, Ron will realize he has a leak somewhere and yet another cadre of "professionals" will come by (but only if he begs them on hands and knees - and then, only if they bother to return his 3 calls to each) and sell him another boiler - because they won't fix a leak...

    And Ron will then look back at all the money he spent, never admit he could have saved a lot more by merely finding the right contractor who knows how to do a simple pipe leak repair, correct a few glaring shortcomng of his existing Weil McLain - and finally realize, all the money he thought he would save, could have been twice what he now fantasizes - had just ONE ethical contractor, who knew how to replace a 3-dollar pipe, and propose an extremely effective control for what he had came to his rescue.

    But they didn't.

    The truly sad thing, is Ron thinks it's about the S-2000. True, they would not be in my top ten list of decent boilers. And because they "control" who gets to sell their boilers, they also control the basis of the installation.

    The boiler he selected is moot. The basis upon which he made that decision is the problem. He claims to have contacted 8 contractors. Having instaled more W/M 68's than I can count (well over 100) I know the leak cauases. Trust me, it wasn't the boiler leaking! It was only the pipe screwed into it.

    I saw a guy once sell someone a boiler claiming it was toast. In fact, the switch at the head of the stairs was accidently flipped off. The homeowner, thinking the boiler was already 20 years old and probably close to being spent, asked for and had a new boiler installed a day later.

    Know the difference between the guy who sold you the S-2000 and the guy I knew who knew about the flipped switch?

    Nothing.

    The ONLY thing I can say is, if you were TOLD THE W/M COULD SIMPLY HAVE THE OFFENDING PIPE REPLACED AND THE LEAK REPAIRED - and YOU suggested you not go that route, you wanted to spend the 7K needlessly because of any logical reason - I retract everything implied, stated or suggested.

    Since I've mentioned that a few time and you never said you WERE told a simple rotted pipe replacement was an option - I must assume you were a victim.

    Better hurry, I think the new S-2000 just spit out more savings...

    And...

    You never answered the question of whether permits were taken, and if the job passed inspection.

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  • Tim_41
    Tim_41 Member Posts: 153
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    EK1

    I've installed many 68S in the past. S.S. eff anywheres from 83 to 86% EFF. And, they are reliable.However, that is only telling me how eff the burner is. The stand by heat loss is high like any tankless boiler. I can make a woodstove burn 82%. Its what you do with the heat afterwards that makes a big difference. That is why I have installed the EK-1's The system uses most of the heat it produces by emmitting the heat where it belongs: in the rooms of the house. They also are very reliable.
  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
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    Ken

    You feel there is no payback in replacing a 20 year old pin type boiler? The baseline in the BNL study was a 22 year old oil fired pin boiler.Fuel consumption was reduced approx 17% just by replacing with a new pin boiler. 1200Gals/yr @ $2.50= $3000 less 17% = $510 a year savings.Not a bad ROI tax free with a $500 NYS credit to boot.A 3 pass or EK will do almost 2x as well.
    I think Ron made a wise 7K investment that will yield 3x what a money market would with zero taxes.With the fringe benefit of quiet,clean operation with almost unlimited DHW.

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  • jim_57
    jim_57 Member Posts: 41
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    The DHW doesn't use an electric water heater, it uses a highly insulated tank that looks like one for storage only. Holds the heat well enough that if hot water is not used the system only runs a cycle about every 32-34 hours to keep it hot. The 40 gallon tank has no element tappings while the 80 & 120's have optional side tappings for higher draw if needed.

    The plate heat exchanger is very well made and makes hot water faster than an indirect.

    It's unfortunate that steel got such a bad rep from the contractor's specials that were sold for peanuts back in the 60's and 70's. Some of the best and most efficient residential boilers made starting back in the late 30's, GE and Bethlehem Dynatherm, were steel. Dynatherm is alive and well and still makes an excellent product. The remaining GE's have probably all been converted to conventional flame retention burners but will probably last as long as the house.
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718
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  • Alfred J. Kauth
    Alfred J. Kauth Member Posts: 8
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    System 2000 installation

    Dear Ron,

    Congratulations,

    This was a big step and I think that it is a great job. Earlier in your quest for information on the EK-2000, I told you of my first hand experience with this unit.In the last 17 years of ownership,never,not once, has this unit failed to meet every demand placed upon it. From a family of two little girls in 1990, to a growing family of three teenage girls, the EK-2000 has given all the comfort and DHW needs that we demand.
    I have added on to the house and installed cast radiation, infloor radiant,fan coils in the A/C ductwork,all of this increased load to the unit and it just responds to the demand.

    Enjoy your new EK-2000
    Your choice was a wise one

    ajtorrid in PA
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Ken .. Ken .. Ken...

    First of all .. both guys that came by, in the beginning didn't try to sell me systems ... only fix my old one. You are debating this issue becaue you hate s-2000. I'll tell you this .. it has not come on once today. No one was home. The boiler didn't heat to keep the water warm. No matter what you say ... I'm saving oil. You have a personal issue with s-2000 ( maybe they wouldn't let you be a dealer or sell you parts) but that has nothing to do with me. I understand you don't like them from all of your blogs.. but why turn folks away from a good product, that works, because YOU don't like them?? I came to this site for objective opinions .. and yours is not one of them. I would respect you more if you said why you don't like them .. rather than continously putting them down. Face facts .. it's a good product .. it works and people like it! Get over your issues and move on. I'm happy with my decision. Sorry if you don't like it or feel that I have spent too much money. The boiler has not come on all day .. I know that I'm saving oil... Sorry if you don't like it... but saving money is SAVING MONEY!!!

    Ken I would hope that you would try to give good advice .. even if you didn't like a product. But that is not the case .. you have dogged the s-2000 since I logged on to the site. I may have spent too much money, but what happens when I start saving on the fuel .. oops your bad???

    Thanks to everyone on the site for your advice .. I realize that Ken is in his own world!!
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Hey : ajtorrid

    I think I've gone on long enough with Ken he hates s-2000. But as an owner .. and others that I have talked to .. they like the product and are happy with it. I appreciate your response and I look forward to many happy years. So far it's only come on once today .. when we were taking showers this morning. I think I made a wise choice .. and glad to know that you are happy with it!!

    bigron
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    Last time

    A. Did they get permits and did it pass inspection.

    B. Did anyone of the 8 people that stopped by suggest the pipe leak could be fixed and an indirect with a decent control would get you to where you are now?

    C. And for about one-third of what you invested?

    I think we already know the answer.

    Your caharacterization of me posting to impune EK is unfounded. I post to expose the misinformation you received and upon which you made your decision.


    You continue to avoid the point; that being: If you were informed of the one-third the cost repair and system upgrade which would have gotten you exactly where you are now - and decided to NOT take that option, you made an informed choice.

    But you weren't told. And you made the decision you made, because the people you trusted did what was best for them; not you.

    But you, believing the new boiler's off-cycle time-frames are the result of this product alone, (something ANY indirect and simple controller would be capable of) will join the EK fan club, touting how wonderful it is, how quiet it is, and fantasize how much fuel and money you'll save; when in fact, you could have gotten the SAME results for one-third the investment -with the Weil McLain.

    The issue never was the EK. The issue has always been the basis upon which you were led to do what you did.

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  • laurence salvatore_2
    laurence salvatore_2 Member Posts: 86
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    E-68

    I am not old enough to have put in any of those blue WM boilers, but I have been taking quite few out latley. That WM was an "inexpensive" cast iron boiler. To use the car annalogy its a Pontiac. Those things leak when you take the pressure off them thats why nobody wanted to attempt a repair. No Ken we don't crack them on refill. From what I can see there is at least 8 hours work for a man and a helper. At our shop that is over $1,000.00 in labor plus parts. The correct move was not to throw good money at a spent boiler, but put in a new one piped in a way that makes more sense. I can't find the pic's of the new install so the more sense part is just a guess. S-2000 would not be my first choice, but niether would weil-mclein. You guys need to get over your irrational attatchments to these manufaturers. Peerless, Burnham, Crown, Columbia, Pensotti, Wiel-Mclien, Viessmen, and all the rest don't care about you. So don't love something that doesn't love you back. This guy just bought years of fuel savings,trouble free operation and peace of mind. Money well spent in my book
  • laurence salvatore_2
    laurence salvatore_2 Member Posts: 86
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    E-68

    I am not old enough to have put in any of those blue WM boilers, but I have been taking quite few out latley. That WM was an "inexpensive" cast iron boiler. To use the car annalogy its a Pontiac. Those things leak when you take the pressure off them thats why nobody wanted to attempt a repair. No Ken we don't crack them on refill. From what I can see there is at least 8 hours work for a man and a helper. At our shop that is over $1,000.00 in labor plus parts. The correct move was not to throw good money at a spent boiler, but put in a new one piped in a way that makes more sense. I can't find the pic's of the new install so the more sense part is just a guess. S-2000 would not be my first choice, but niether would weil-mclein. You guys need to get over your irrational attatchments to these manufaturers. Peerless, Burnham, Crown, Columbia, Pensotti, Wiel-Mclien, Viessmen, and all the rest don't care about you. So don't love something that doesn't love you back. This guy just bought years of fuel savings,trouble free operation and peace of mind. Money well spent in my book
  • The Wire Nut
    The Wire Nut Member Posts: 420
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    Hear Hear!

    I completely agree that the issue is not one of company X vs. company Y, but one of "what is the best tool for a given application?" I can't comment on whether condemning the old boiler was the right move or not... nor can anyone else who wasn't in that basement, IMO. Pictures and a narrative only go so far in describing a system in its entirety.

    My only negative comment on the above install is that I'm not terribly fond of circulators and other "wet" active things like vents, valves, etc. being put over a boiler and its control. I've seen too many of them leak at some point in their life. Why put the boiler and it's controls at risk if there is extra room? Space-constrained installs are exempted of course.

    Let's see what the homeowner saves. If the payback is 5 years or less, he's ahead in the game. The Vitodens project in ME that I was involved with has saved the homeowner thousands of dollars already. Funny what a proper repipe, boiler strategy, and right-sized boiler can do.

    Previously, I was turned off System 2000 by its marketing pitch, which was too shrill for me. However, Tom Butchers research on the energy efficiency of this small boiler is pretty impressive. With the right BOP and support where necessary this boiler may please its owners for years to come.
    "Let me control you"

    Lost in SOHO NYC and Balmy Whites Valley PA
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Decision made ...

    Ken .. I apologize if I got bent out of shape over this. Your saying that a re-pipe job would have saved me money. I'm saying after looking at options (fixing the old boiler) and the time and money that I invested in the home I wanted to go new. I may have saved a few bucks up front, but I was looking at long term, which meant I WANTED to put in a new boiler. Believe me, I didn't just jump at s-2000. I looked at burnham (v84 and MPO), biasi, buderus, peerless and weil. I just decided that the s-2000 would be good for my home. I've invested a lot into my home, we love it and plan to bee here for a very long time. So yes .. I may have saved some money on my old boiler .. but I was going new! I came to this site to ask questions and get answers on products that I have seen and talked with installers about. I'm sure I could've gotten 10 different responses on this one .. but this is what I wanted .. And I'll have to live or die with the savings .. I can only let you know what I've found over the next year. If I save money or not I will let everyone know. Thanks again .. Ken .. thanks to you too .. you have a right to your opinion!!
  • john_83
    john_83 Member Posts: 76
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    I still cant believe people think the hot water tank is anything but an electric water heater. I especially like how on there installs how they cut the plate where the element cover is for the element so they can getthe pipe through it Seems to me if the tank were made for that it would have its own port. But that plate must be for something else since its not a electric water heater. Hey you keep thinking you got a top of the line water heater i much rather have a well made indirect any day. Also good luck finding parts when it really counts ahh may be you can call American Water heater company for them. Or in the milddle of the night the shoe sales man can maybe fabricate something in his garage with the rest of the 2000. I have to say i've ripped out more of the 2000 boilers because of homeowners unhappy with them after several companies tried to fix. Funny thing is where was the guy that origanally put it in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
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    and yet

    Gentleman, he made an educated choice based on information supplied. He's the owner of his house and he's happy with the company that put it in. I say congrat's, enjoy and let us know how it goes.
  • Joe Brix
    Joe Brix Member Posts: 626
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    I agree 100% with John

    The EK will save money, but I question the cost for the quality of the parts. I also got a quote for an EK 2 years ago in about the same price range. But for several hundred less I got a Burnham LE with Rilleo BF5 and and a Phase III
    indirect AND a stainless steel liner for my chimney AND a Tekmar 260 (OK the 260 I installed myself).

    I'm saving oil also. But I feel I got an overall better package made of top of the line equipment and fixed my chimney draft to boot for LESS.
  • John Loughlin
    John Loughlin Member Posts: 1
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    KE Kool-Aid

    Oh my! Anyone in the trade who has had to deal with EK's hard sale and HORRIBLE sales reps is gagging reading this thread.

    What yopu all say about the product is on base with my experiences. Nice engineering, inferior materials, good but dated concept and HUGE price tag. The install pictured is sloppy. And this guy's system will NEVER pay for itself compared to the expense of repairing the first quality iron boiler he threw out.

    But what I do hope is that the homeowner never, not ever, nope, not once, not even a little, never has to deal with those kool-aid drinking, lying froot-loops at EK.

    We gave them a big shot. Invested a nice sum in their stuff, advertising their stuff, picking their stuff up at their factory and installing their stuff. And their promises were for naught. Lies from sales reps who were more concerned with drinking than backing their customers.

    Sorry guy, you threw away a superior system. Your EK should serve you well. It'll be quiet.

    But I KNOW you could have done better things with that seven grand.

    We're with you all the way, Ken. Snake oil.
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
    Options
    We all have an opinion ..

    Hey you guys are entitled to your opinion. I've talked to clients who have had the system 2000 for years and have had no problems. I've read threads (one in this blog) of someone who has had his 17 years. Some folks like it, some don't .. I happen to think I made the correct choice. I have a heard a lot of good things on the s-2000, and you may not like their sales tactics... but I don't care about that! But that is the same for EVERY BRAND. Some people don't like Perless, weil, buderus and so on, and others love them. I want the boiler to work and save me money! So until I find out I'm not saving money .. I feel good about my choice. Does anyone else like the s-2000??
  • Leo
    Leo Member Posts: 770
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    BigRon

    As long as those who service it go by the book, it will run. If the water heater goes in the middle of the night, it can wait just as any other brand can. The manager has a cheater board if it goes, I understand the newer ones can be by passed. Everything can be bought locally except the manager and chamber. I have worked for a company who sold them before my arrival so I have never sold them. I would have no problem having one in my house. When the guy opens it during the annual service, make sure he doesn't cheat, they aren't forgiving if not cleaned right. Other than that enjoy, and please track your oil gallons used so you can compare one full year of before and one of after.

    Leo
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
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    actually Ron

    I have had one minor issue that could not be explained. Other than that I worked for a company that installed hundred's of them in NH and had few complaint's to my knowledge. They are an extremely quiet system that in every case I have worked on has saved the customer a decent amount of fuel.

    Service wise they are fairly easy to maintain, you just need to follow the book like any other product on the market. Like any product, if you take care of it, it will take care of you..
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
    Options
    And...

    There were no permits taken.

    No inspections.

    And as the photos show, the workmanship more than just "suspect."

    Classic EK S-2000 marketing. Paraphrasing Connie, their marketing plan is shrill.

    EK has my nomination for the Secor Paradigm: "Great marketing will overcome mediocre engineering every time; typically in a ratio of 2:1"

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Jim_139
    Jim_139 Member Posts: 61
    Options
    John

    The DHW tank IS NOT an electric water heater. It is a well insulated glass lined tank, no tappings for elements, one thermostat behind the cover. If you use a plate heat exchanger and connect it to the tank you have an indirect but better and faster. Better because if one component goes bad you replace only that component. Faster because the domestic side uses forced circulation instead of relying on natural convection to heat the water. If the tank springs a leak you can replace it with a standard water heater bypassing the elements and upper thermostat.

    The only components on the system that aren't available locally are the manager and digital temp sensor. The system will run without the temp sensor in the default service board mode. If the manager absolutely dies you can use a service board if you have one, if not you can temporarily do a rewire to run it temporarily. If the chamber falls apart, remove the pieces and you can run the system for a week until you get a replacement.

    Ken talks about snake oil and smoke and mirrors being used to sell the system, but one of the things that keeps popping up on this site is the complaint that only members of the "club" can buy parts. Some companies go to the extent of informing the customer that the company is no longer in business but they just happen to have a nice boiler in their warehouse they can install for a really good price. ALL parts can be purchased by qualified techs, service companies, etc directly from EK.

    My own system 2000 was installed 10 years ago and has needed nothing more than normal maintenance in that time. I have friends who have been installing and servicing the systems for 20 years and they have no complaints about the system or the company.

This discussion has been closed.