Should I convert from steam heat to hydro air heat and cooling

EJ

I have a victorian house from 1911, with radiators, and I really want to have central air. The HVAC peolple that I had come in suggested converting to hydro air for both heating and cooling and removing the radiators -- I am now waiting for the estimates to come back. I am a big fan of steam heating, however, in my house the radiators are in places that make you lose wall space and therefore I can't put furniture where it should be. They also indicated that I would gain height in my basement once the piping is removed, I am then going to finish the basement. Right now I have oil and gas is possible. I live in a town that has its own power plant so our electric rates ar half the average. I would appreciate any suggestions if anyone else has been in the same situation and what if any type of conversion is the right move ? Thanks.

Steamhead (in transit)

Don't do it

and you definitely need to talk to someone else. Those guys $ee a major tear-out job which you will pay big buck$ for, and lo$e comfort and efficiency to boot.

Ducted heat can never be as comfortable as radiated heat. The moving air makes you feel cooler, and the natural reaction to this is to crank up the thermostat.

Also, the typical duct system loses quite a bit of what goes into it. Go here for more:

http://oikos.com/esb/28/duct_losses.html

And ducts can pressurize and depressurize various parts of the house, increasing infiltration. Go here:

http://oikos.com/esb/44/forcedair.html

With standard ductwork, you also need to build bulkheads to hide the ducts where they pass thru rooms. This is way more unsightly than radiators will ever be.

For your A/C, a mini-duct system or ductless system is a much better bet. Mini-duct systems like Space-Pak or Unico use 2-inch-diameter ducts that can be fished thru walls. Ductless systems use blower/coil units placed in the rooms. These systems don't heat very well though, especially in very cold weather, as the higher air velocities make you feel cooler as described above.

It is possible to reroute steam piping so it will be out of the way of a finished basement. But if that 1911-era foundation leaks during rainy periods, finishing the basement might be more trouble than it's worth.

Where are you located?


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EJ

Thanks for the reply. I'm in long island, new york. What they explained to me is that there will be no ducting, there will be hydronic fan coil wall units in each room and according to them it will produce the quality and comfort of hydronic heating with the low cost of gas. The basement is totally dry, we have no water issues so finishing is definitely an option. Do you know of any people who have Hydro-Air?

Steamhead (in transit)

Fan-coil units

still have fans that blow air. This is great for cooling but lousy for heating. Keep your steam.

On Long Island, I wouldn't call anyone but Matt Sweeney, owner of Triple Crown P&H in Floral Park. Matt has built a steam system in his own house- from scratch- so he can take proper care of your system. Follow this URL for Matt's contact info:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=210&Step=30

As far as gas vs. oil, the first thing to do is compare the cost per BTU in your area. For gas, you have to include all the taxes and fees that Keyspan or National Greed or whatever they call themselves now, doesn't include in the advertised price per therm. Take the price you paid for gas used in a month, divide by the number of therms used that month and that's your price per therm (a therm is 100,000 BTU).

For oil, divide the price by 140,000 then multiply the result by 100,000 to get the same per-BTU basis as gas.

Then realize that oil companies are in competition while many gas companies are unregulated monopolies. From what I understand, your gas utility is essentially unregulated and can jack up prices at will.

There are some boilers that are offered from the factory with either oil or gas burners. This gives you the ultimate competitive edge- all you need to do to switch fuels is have a pro change the burner! Of course you'd need an oil tank and a gas hookup, but then you would be in control.

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Darin Cook_5

Eileen

It sounds like the HVAC company you had look at your home is recommending a "Multi-Aqua" type system. This is a residential style chiller system tied in with a boiler. While there is no duct work involved each blower unit will need a supply and a return pipe ran to it and a condensate drain for each blower unit (for cooling/dehumidification operation). All of the condensate lines could pose an issue for proper drainage. This system is similiar to what you see in hotels and commercial buildings.

How open is your floor plan? Perhaps a few Mitsubishi duct-less splits could be a better option for cooling. It is hard to beat those steam radiators on those bone-chilling winter days.

I also recommend Matt Sweeney to come and take a look at your home. He will take very good care of you and provide you with all of your options!








Darin

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Unknown

people that have hydro air

Reasons people have the hydro air in their home is that what was in their home when they brought the home. What they think of it? NOISEY ! Fan blower in each unit... Year 'round blower noises... I too, agree to call Matt Sweeny...

Dave_4

If you're happy with your heating, it is ridiculous to consider pulling it out if all you want to do is add central air. Add a ductless AC split-system. You're always better off with a dedicted system to heat or cool as no product does a good job of providing both.

chuck_6

Listen to Stemhead

Eileen:

Listen to Steamhead. He knows Steam better than anyone, and you can't go wrong having Matt look at your system. Stick with steam. Check your radiator vents and main vents.

The only thing I disagree with in the posts is ductless A/C. We have conventional A/C on our second floor with the air handler in the attic and Unico on the first floor with the air handler in the basement. I find the conventional system much better, more efficient and less noisy, even though most people rave about Unico. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone conventional for everything. You can at least do conventional on your second floor and Unico on the first floor.

Chuck

Tom Hopkins

Unico

If your Unico system is noisy it probably was improperly installed. Is the noise from the outlets or the return?

I am a big fan of steam heat and would nearly always recommend keeping it. I have converted a few places over the years to forced air (easy there Frank) when I agreed with the homeowner that the radiators were too obtrusive for a relatively small floor plan. These were narrow row houses with smallish rooms. Most old homes with steam heat have well placed radiators that don't interfere with traffic flow or floor plan. We've recently saved old steam systems at four condominium conversion apartment buildings at a cost savings of many tens of thousands to the developer. As I've said to others, do your homework, get a good steam guy, see how you can marry a cooling system to the old place, don't skimp on the insulation and sealing. You'll be happy you did.

My 2 cents

Jamie Hall

Get Matt

to come out and look at and tune the steam system. Then you'll have the best heating system money can buy -- for practically nothing.

After you've done that, find a really good air conditioning contractor to design and install a really good air conditioning system (all the posts above mention good systems, except the ones mentioning combined fan-coils for both heating and cooling, which aren't worth the powder to blow them up). Then you'll have the best air conditioning system you can get.

And be very happy.

EJ

Thank you all for taking the time to give your advice. I really appreciate it. I have spoken with Matt and he is coming to my house Monday morning.

Ted_9

No

NO no no no!

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