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Wind Power - Political Reality
Tony Conner
Member Posts: 549
The link in my original post takes you to an article published in a magazine I get - "Power". The SIERRA CLUB is one of the groups OPPOSING the MA windpower project in the article, right? The Sierra Club is opposing renewable power? What's up with that?
I was interested in seeing what kind of discussion that little nugget of info would trigger. Obviously little, if any. I think that says FAR more about the downside of windpower than I ever could.
I was interested in seeing what kind of discussion that little nugget of info would trigger. Obviously little, if any. I think that says FAR more about the downside of windpower than I ever could.
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Comments
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Wind Power - Political Reality
OK, windpower dudes - check out this link:
Wind
It's just a short one-page article, so it doesn't take long to read. I find it fascinating to see who is among the opposition to the proposed project, don't you?0 -
Maui wind
I watched this under construction all of February. I thought they looked very pretty up there on the mountain. Pinwheels in Paradise.Retired and loving it.0 -
opposition by proxy
Politics make for strange bedfellows? Ted Kennedy is among those trying to block wind turbines offshore from his home.
Where was he when 3-mile island was being built in my area?(G)
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Pretty Sad
It's called N.I.M.B.Y >> Not In My Back Yard
There has been a fight down here for 3-4 years to build the first "offshore wind farm"
I would be located on a Shoal [shallow water] about 4 miles square
The majority of the opponents are as follows
People who own Real Estate on the water and don't want thier view changed [The Affluent and Politicians]
Marine orginizations that say it is too close to a shipping channel [remember, it is on a shoal and boats can't go near it anyway]
The bird lovers orginizations who are afraid the birds will be chopped up [yeah right]
Enviromentalists, who speculate he "possibility" of a oil leak from a transformer [the same people who complain about oil and gas consumption]
After Katrina there was some info floating around, many years ago when they tried to increase the height of the barrier levys [ and guess who put up a stink [homeowners and business who did not want the view blocked] >>> SO HOW THEY LOOKIN NOW
Probably about 10 years from now, when our oil and gas reserves are depleted, many are going to say, WHY DIDN'T DIDN'T WE DO SOMETHING BEFORE
WAKE UP AMERICA, THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE
Proud owner of a Energy Star equipped home
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Where was Ted?
Dry, sober and home with his wife of course.
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You owe me
a new computer screen Brad!
Coffee all over the place!
Thanks!!
Mark H
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Around here
we call them C.A.V.E.s
Citizens Against Virtually Everything0 -
key words in your question
are "in my area" which is not his area!0 -
Another Article...
... from the same magazine issue:
http://web.hermesemessenger.com/tfg/public/newsletters/present/issue165/article109.html0 -
And Another
This one's on the EPA being forced to release documents used in making a rule on mercury emissions.
http://web.hermesemessenger.com/tfg/public/newsletters/present/issue165/article105.html0 -
a poll just came out
71% of Ma, residents are for the Cape Wind Project
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I'd Be Interested...
... in knowing what the exact wording of the question was.
My guess is that you could move that "29% against" around the state very nicely by telling residents that the proposed installation would be near them
Most people are all-for stuff like this, as long as it gets built 100 miles away. 0 -
wind farm
> It's called N.I.M.B.Y __ Not In My Back
> Yard
>
> There has been a fight down here for 3-4
> years to build the first "offshore wind
> farm"
>
> I would be located on a Shoal [shallow
> water] about 4 miles square
>
> The majority of
> the opponents are as follows
>
> People who own
> Real Estate on the water and don't want thier
> view changed [The Affluent and
> Politicians]
>
> Marine orginizations that say it
> is too close to a shipping channel [remember, it
> is on a shoal and boats can't go near it
> anyway]
>
> The bird lovers orginizations who are
> afraid the birds will be chopped up [yeah
> right]
>
> Enviromentalists, who speculate he
> "possibility" of a oil leak from a transformer
> [the same people who complain about oil and gas
> consumption]
>
> After Katrina there was some info
> floating around, many years ago when they tried
> to increase the height of the barrier levys [ and
> guess who put up a stink [homeowners and business
> who did not want the view blocked] ___ SO HOW
> THEY LOOKIN NOW
>
> Probably about 10 years from
> now, when our oil and gas reserves are depleted,
> many are going to say, WHY DIDN'T DIDN'T WE DO
> SOMETHING BEFORE
>
> WAKE UP AMERICA, THINK ABOUT
> THE FUTURE
>
> Proud owner of a Energy Star
> equipped home
0 -
wind farm
The Mass. Audobon society actually said that they found that the Horseshoe shoal wind farm would have NO effect on migratory birds. They are for it.
I think folks like Teddy dont want it because they didnt think of it 1st. Imagine the $$ him and his left-wing buddies could have made off it. So now he's against it.
As far as being near navigation channels, if you are on or near horseshoe shoals in a ship or ferryboat you've got bigger trouble than a wind mill.
Its to bad this country isnt waking up.
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NJ has some operating windmills..
Big ones that are on the outskirts of Atlantic City, about 1 mile in from the beach. Folks in the area can opt for a "Green Energy" deal on their utility bill, and some of this wind energy is "theirs". I thought those windmills looked pretty cool spinning slowly in a moderate breeze, but I was a bit suprised at how big those suckers were, since they were the first "real" ones I'd ever seen, other than some experimental models at local colleges or the old Aeromotor Grandma had on the farm back when I was a kid. Poor old Don Quixote is going to need a bigger horse!0 -
Ted K. does some of his best
boating in shallow waters, come on now.0 -
Not sure about boating........
....but to some, he sure does walk on it. Especially, if it's mixed with scotch.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"There was an error rendering this rich post.
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well
they could build a bridge out to those wind catchers, give him a vehicle and make him the official tour guide!
Personally, I think they should ring the DC "inside-the-beltway" area with windmills and capture all that bloviated wind.
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Mary Jo
was from your neck of the woods, was she not?0 -
hard to remember
that far back, but I think that's right.
All kidding aside, it's time for us, the US, to step up and be leaders in renewable energy. The single best and only truely renewable energy resources that can "save" us are wind and solar.
I wish our President would give a Kennedy-esque man-on-the-moon speech. Inspire and lead us out of our oil dependence! Yeah, that'd be the ticket. Set deadlines for solar installations; cut red tape from wind projects; zero in on our looming water crisis issues and protect the underground aquifers being depleted; quit subsidizing irrigation methods that waste most of what they sprinkle; sit on those states using lousy flow numbers for sucking too much water from our rivers; smack down the eggregious pollution credits where companies can simply buy extra tonnage credits and swap with other companies instead of cleaning up their act; kick the car comopanys' collective asses and give them better gas mileage numbers they must meet - just like you all did to our water closets, water heaters, faucets, etc. - they can do it & you knew that before letting them off the hook; don't let the oil companies get into solar or wind - they'll only screw things around so consumers will bleed - again; and while you're at it, quit screwing with our SS and make everyone take their fingers out of that pie. I'd ask that you make congress and house members participate in SS, but that would either get it fixed so fast, we'd wonder if ever there was a problem, or - more likely - it'd be so screwed up, no one would ever be able to untangle the financial mysteries created!
In short Mr. Pres., it's time to kick everyone's ****. What the hey, you aren't eligible for another term, so let's get-er-done!
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as a boater
I'm all for the windmills, I think they will aid in navigation because they are a fixed reference point, like a lighthouse or oil rigs. Remember when they told us how bad the offshore oil rigs would be for the environment, well they are now artifical reefs that many fisherman head directly for, the windmills will will do even better because there will be so many together. They have us conned that they are ugly, what about Holland. Even a fisherman friend of mine said they will be ugly until I told him if we catch a big fish, we will position the boat so the windmills will be in the background, because they are so cool, like a lighthouse. He agreed. I'm still laughing at that Kennedy reference Brad. Have you heard this one- How many Kennedys does it take to screw in a light bulb? Bob
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Great thread
and VERY entertaining gentleman! Thanks0 -
Makes you wonder
if "renewable" energy and green spaces are their real agenda.
Mark H
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yes
I read that one and others too. The odd thing is this: the Sierra Club and just about every other so-called environmental group has expressed dis-approval of wind farms. So much so that they've lost credibility (IMHO) regarding this issue. It seems like a farce that the very groups who should be advocating "green" power are some of the loudest protesters. When the day comes that a wind/energy project really is not warranted in a given area, they will have used up their rhetoric and greatly diminished any chance their voices will be heard or taken seriously.
Maybe it's because we live in rural farm country where rustic windmills churning away on farmland are still a common and, for some reason, comforting sight. If I lived on the top of the hill by our home where wind is fairly constant, I'd plant one myself. My latest edition of Home Power mag has a neat looking residential wind/power generator.
The Feds have seen fit to give solar installations the power to over-ride local zoning or condo assn rules, but not wind. Time and rising energy costs will cure that problem. Dead birds? Maybe there shouldn't be any cars if that's the issue.
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I did read it
What, now I am suppose to trust what I read. As many articals that you find agianst renewable energy, I can find just as many for. I also notice the source of your artical " COAL POWER MAGAZINE" an un bias publication no dout. I will say it agian I am not for the wind farm project, not because it won't work or because it will be an eye sore. I am against it because it solves nothing not even coal or nuke will solve it. All you are doing is increasing the supply, which is a short term feel good fix. Yes, energy cost will come down but for how long? I know you "do the math" but how do you equate human error into the equation? How long of a supply can we create with these sourse? We WILL run out of coal, oil, natural gas and any other fossil fuel this I am certain of. That leaves nuke, but what about the toxic waste do we have a plan for this and if we do how come no one is talking about it? The hard solution is to lower the "DEMAND", but that will cost you on an individual basis and we don't want that. Renewable energy IS the answer but let see if we can save energy before we exshaust all of our natural resources or build giant pin wheels. I would like to be a "DEAD MAN" some day so (Here it comes a tree hugger) SAVE THE PLANET for the children. Hope this work as well here as it does at town meeting and the school budget.0 -
Mass Bourbon society
Hmmmm.... never heard of it... here: http://www.energycentral.com/site/newsletters/ebi.cfm?id=840 -
Yup I read the article
and find the humor in this post a bit more grounded and factual than the Sierra clubs rhetoric.
As far as renewable energy, it's our future and makes the best sense imo to solve the energy demands of the world. The information available seems so convoluted and politically based that finding any solid facts seems a crap shoot.
I dont possess the engineering backround to debate the physics behind whether wind turbines will or will not provide enough energy to make them a worthwhile investment. I do (as many others do) however possess the ability and have access to resources that will provide the education needed to provide my customers with the most energy eff. products and equipment available.
imo it's the best I can offer as well as my duty. It's obvious to me that something has to happen be it nukes, solar,wind or maybe something that hasn't been thought of yet. Pushing the envelope has always yielded the best results, I suspect the same will hold true with energy as well.0 -
Thanks for the large idea vs a post on changing out zone valves
some reading is in order to keep abreast of the times.America needs to be united on the futures vision regardless of current difficulties.At least here at Dans site many topics are open to discussion.
when it comes to wind power generation and reusing steam to improve efficiency of existing power plants across the nation we aren't arguing about price points and can see the viability of having something done ,done well,and having worth far into the future.
google Wind power Bermuda follow sink a power generator and also read Balloon power Bermuda one time.0 -
wind farms & environmentalists
There are SOME environmentalists opposed to wind farms in many places. "Environmentalists" are by no means a unified group. I consider myself one, and I am all for wind farms. There is a lot of bad rhetoric and misinformation flying around concerning the impact of wind farms on birds and marine life. The NIMBYism of the Kennedys really ticks me off. Large wind mills are quite graceful and poetic, especially since they generate electricity without producing pollution. Credible scientists have concluded the Cape Wind farm would actually be a long-term benefit to marine life off the Cape, because of the creation of additional reef-like underwater structures. If global warming isn't averted through aggressive conservation, efficiency, and alternatives, then Cape Cod residents need to begin preparing for life without a Cape Cod.0 -
Prop speed
I read in a local newspaper , as there are several proposed wind farms for my area , that the tip of the prop is traveling in exess of 200 mph . May the birds beware.
Around here hawks and eagles would be impacted, so they say. Personally I dont think a few seagulls getting whacked at the Nantucket sound project wouldnt be the end of the world.
I'm glad you mentioned the benefits the added structure would have on the "marine life" (read striper). Sounds like the perfect fit for a wind farm. I can't see them from my house anyway.
P.S. There are no (or very few) pipes required for wind farms. There are plenty of alternative energy sources that have alot of pipes. Pebble Bed Reactors, Thermal Depolymerization Plants (old name) to name a couple.The more piping the better! Then again I just like piping and all it can do.0 -
Heres the cape wind web site. We use the info before boating in the sound.
http://capewind.whgrp.com/
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Why is't so tuff
Alot of the negativity taking place in Goverment and with politicians, is not because of risks [no question future benifits outweigh the risk]
It is because many don't want a Private company, profiting from public land.. one of the way's they try to stop it is to petition Orgs like the Coast Gard to place restrictionson what "our" land can be used for
There has been alot of "ruined view". viewpoints, but in places like Holland, studies have shown, many drive to see them>>> How many of you would take a trip to the Cape [or any farm] to see them or experiance great fishing?
Rich,>> East Falmouth>> 30 sec drive to a beautiful spinning view0 -
good point, and quite ironic
Private oil and gas companies have been extracting highly profitable fossil fuels from public lands for decades.0 -
Government role to play
I firmly believe that when government has the opportunity to help out a private industry goal that benefits the general population, it should do it.
Case in point. I live in a small rural community and serve as the clerk on our township board. We had been trying to get the local phone company to establish high speed internet service here for several years and were running into dead ends everywhere we went. "Not enough population to warrant the investment" was the phone compnay's response. The board could see their point but in this day and age High speed service is about as basic as having electrical power in your home.
We (the town board) approached a wireless internet company about putting up a tower in our area to provide wireless high speed around here. They were very interested but being a new startup company, didn't have the funds to erect a tower in a reasonable time frame. After researching the legalities of the township erecting the tower and leasing it back to the internet company we came to an agreement with them to do just that. The township owns the tower and associated equipment, the internet company receives funds from their subscribers, they in turn basically reimburse the township for our investment through a lease agreement based on the number of subscribers and a set monthly fee.
The results have been great. We now have high speed available not only from the wireless people but also the phone company. They seemed to sit up and take notice after the tower went up and decided that we were serious about our intentions. The phone company came in with a lower price and introduced some competition to the wireless company, providing pretty darn low cost service for all involved.
Government working with private industry can and does work if and only if there are no pockets padded and all is done with transparency and integrity.0 -
And
the hard rock minerals types get it for pennies and leave us with environmental disasters. At least the coal guys are required to replace clear cuts. Those that mine copper, gold etc. don't have to play by the same rules and after extracting the good stuff leave the PUBLIC lands for the public to clean up. Should be a crime against humanity and jail time.0 -
Wow...
... a name. You're coming along. Next we'll work on math
My original challenge was for all those in favour of renewable power to NOT run their AC this summer. I'll bet there won't be one green power advocate in 10,000 to actually DO that.
Why aren't there more people running diesel engines in their vehicles? The average gasoline powered vehicle converts 15% of the fuel input to where the rubber meets the road. Diesels take that number to 24%. You increase your fuel economy by about 50%. Few people will spend the money on the diesel option.
Most people LOVE the idea of windmills - as long as they can drive (in their gasoline powered SUVs) somewhere to see them. They sure aren't interested in having them within sight of their homes. Witness the issue in MA, referenced in the Power magazine article.
As far as Power magazing goes, everybody can pick up the "Granola Times" at the corner store. Few people get "Power" - it's a trade mag. You really should read stuff on both ends of the spectrum. I try to.
Most green power backers are like the Dennis Miller joke: Their environmental awareness consists of driving a Lincoln Navigator with an "Earth First" bumper sticker on it 0 -
In our town
we have found that the partnership can work really well. It takes people willing to work together, mostly found in small towns.
Federal and state folks (especially in big states) tend to be more oriented to perpetuating the levels of gov employees, the next election and what's the future for me after I am out of congress.0 -
\"One Resident...\"
is holding it up in court? Hmmmm...
Here's the A.C. windfarm, and I own a property 1.5 miles away. I persoanlly think they are the highlight of the A.C. skyline...and they are VERY big.
http://www.acua.com/alternative/a_projects_dsply.cfm?id=275
Take Care, PJO0 -
He already used that speech
for his man-on-Mars project.
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