A Witch Hunt............

Constantin

If anything else, we can hope that John's approach will result in a rating system that people can use easily to compare the true seasonal efficiency of a heating plant when they go shopping.

Nothing would make this engineer happier than a chart that shows how many BTUs a boiler will use to provide heat to a "typical" home of a season. This chart or matrix should account for coil vs. indirect DHW, emitters, etc. so that the benefits of low-standby losses from low-mass, modulating, etc. systems can be fully captured.

Unfortunately, my recent job change back into the industry (Hello Supply-house rick) will probably preclude me from helping John. I'll have to inquire as to what I can and can't do in my spare time on job-related functions.

John Ruhnke

A Witch Hunt............

To All this is very important,
The Energy Efficiency Action Group for the Radiant Panel Assoc was working on a very important task that will save the world billions in fuel bills and make a cleaner enviroment. We were developing a means of comparison. This means of comparison is called Overall Heating Efficiency. Overall Heating Efficiency is a way to compare the efficiency of one heating system to another. The first step in improvement is comparison.

The board members of the RPA have gone on a witch hunt. They found me guilty and burned me at the stake. They voted unanimously to close down the Energy Efficiency Action Group. They closed down all of the action groups. All of this was done because of one simple little e-mail that I sent out. In the two years time I have been chairman they never once complained about the way we did things. Instead of offering me guidence and advice they just shut down the group. They closed the doors forever. They said NO!! to conserving energy and YES!! to burning me at the stake. All of this from just one complaint.

I am no longer chairman of this group. There is no longer a Energy Efficiency Action Group.

John Ruhnke
The Condemned Witch

Below is the e-mail that I wrote to the board members,

Good Morning Board Members,

I heard all about the entertaining witch hunt that you just finished with. You burned me at the stake. Was that fun? Do you feel good about yourself? Instead of being constructive and trying to figure out away to help me in my task. You chose to be destructive. To destroy everything that I have worked so hard to create. It is always much easier to knock down a house then it is to build one. You turned my little e-mail into something really big and terrifying. Lets be real here. There never was a threat of lawsuits by anyone. Nore was there ever going to be. Why? because I didn't make any discriminating remarks. You are robbing me of my freedoms. Freedom is the core to this countries success. I have a right to complain about things that are not right in this world. Yes I could have been more tactful with guidance. But you never gave me a chance. Only once in the whole two years did you ever complain about anything I did. Only one mistake did you find. And you chose to destroy something great because of it. Instead of helping me and giving me guidance in how to isolate my e-mails from lawsuits or guidance in toning down my e-mails. All it takes is one person to give me a little advice here. You don't. Also not one person ever called me and talked to me personally to find out where I was going with the EEAG. Noone communicated with me before you decided to shut down the EEAG.

What we are trying to do here is very important to the world. We are trying to measure the overall efficiency of a heating system. NOONE ELSE IS DOING THIS!! NOONE!! It is very important. The first step of improvement is comparison. Although this sounds like a simple task it is not so easy. We can do it!! I know we can. I know that the project will save the world billions in fuel bills after a multi year development and use period. It will take this amount of time to completely work all of the bugs out. Billions of dollars saved every year after year after year. It also means a much cleaner environment. All I was doing in my e-mails was showing how the government was mishandling the efficiency standards that they have control over. Why? because of some political agenda's. I am not the bad guy. I am the good guy here. I am following my heart.

Ask yourself what does God want you to do with your life? With your career? God wants you to make the world a better place to live in. A better place for everyone. That is my main goal here. Burn less fuel and make the world a better place. More fuel reserves for the future and a cleaner environment. Together we can do it.

The first step is to develop the testing method. We need to install test equipment into one house and monitor it for a year. Then we can collect all of the data and work out the formula's. It is not really so hard. We need to find some money to fund this. In the future we will be going after DOE grant money. The Doe will fund $100,000 to a couple of million dollars if they believe in the project. Currently they are nonbelievers. We need to install the following. One weather station with a solar collector, wind speed and direction monitor and outdoor temperature sensor. Flow and btu meters to the house. Inside temperature sensors with data loggers. One test house may cost $25,000 to $50,000 to set up, monitor and retrieve the data.

I have put a lot of hours into this project. I made a lot of phone calls. I applied for a Grant with the DOE. I flew to an ASHRAE conference and talked with many professors about the project. I assembled a great team of experts. Yes I ran into a stumbling block. Yes the group was inactive for a while. I was just starting to try and start things up again.

This is not all that difficult to do. Think about the future of your kids. Before you put them to sleep, look deep into there eyes and ask yourself. Do they want you to conserve fuel? Protect the environment? What is there future going to be like?

Your kids need Overall Efficiency. Your kids need to reduce fuel consumption.

They laughed at the Wright Bros. Stop laughing at me and help me.

Its hot over here in the fire. I am not a witch.

I am just your old fashioned yankee inventor and innovator trying to make the world a better place.

John Ruhnke
The Condemned Witch


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Steamhead (in transit)

There has to be more to it

Someone else had an agenda and didn't like yours. Where does the RPA's funding come from? Who are the board members, and who is paying them? The story they gave about your e-mail was likely just a convenient excuse. I can't count the number of times I've seen organizations do things like this.

Despite the current temporary focus on conservation, there are a lot of interests that want to keep selling as much energy as they can. This is probably what you ran into. If anyone from RPA reads this and has a different story, we're listening.

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Dan Foley

John

John,

You are way out of line here. If you have an issue with the RPA board, it should be handled directly and privately. I would suggest any future replies to this thread be taken to the RPA site. -DF

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Constantin

I'd like to see the letter that caused the ruckus...

... perhaps that would explain the action taken by the RPA. I'll reserve judgement until both sides are heard. Either deserves the benefit of the doubt. Raising the issue here (and with a heartfelt but perhaps misguided open letter to the RPA) is perhaps not the best approach.

Attempting to shame people like this usually only re-affirms their decision that they silenced a loose cannon before it was allowed to do more damage. I would consider editing your post and taking the emotional baggage out of it. The more rational and less emotional your comments are, the better you'll fare in the collective eye of the beholder.

I am very sorry to hear that your action group was closed down, but IMO the Wall is not a court, nor a place to grind axes.

John Ruhnke

A lot is at stake here........

Dan,

A lot is at stake here. Like the future of our oil reserves.

They treated me very badly. They sent e-mails behind my back. A board member told me that everything was fine. That they only voted to sensor me. That board member told me that most board members were not against me and didn't have any intension of removing me as Chairman. Then they go ahead and not only remove me as Chairman but they totaly disolve the action group. All of this behind my back. They never once consulted me about this.

Of course I am mad!!

What did you think? That I would take this lying down?

This is war!! War can get ugly. I'm sorry. It is now a war of words. I fight fairly and honestly. If I am going to fight I prefer to do it here on the wall where I still have a few friends. At the RPA's Board everyone all voted 100% together to disband the EEAG.

John Ruhnke

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John Ruhnke

They will try to get this post removed......

Everyone,

If you are lucky enough to read this post great.
I suspect that the RPA board will put pressure on Dan H to remove these posts. Don't expect it to last long.

JOhn Ruhnke
The condenmed Witch

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Dan Foley

RPA

John,

It is possible our fine host would prefer not to have the RPA's business aired on his site. I'll let him speak for himself. Feel free to e-mail me if you wish to discuss this privately. -DF

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Unknown

Dear Condemned ,

John,

I’m sorry but I have to agree with DF on this one. You shouldn’t bring this topic here. This belongs in the EEAG forum & personal email only IMO. I know you’re upset John but please, you know that this thread will get pulled. You’ve not only got friends here at The Wall, but in the RPA as well. We should keep this where it belongs.


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CHARLES_4

War

It may be war, but it's YOUR war. Your anger is consuming your judgment and professionalism. Don't give your opponent the weapon he needs to justify his actions.

John Ruhnke

There is no EEAG forum..............

Gary,

There is no EEAG forum. Its gone!!!

John Ruhnke

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jp_2

please go to school

john, I've read most of what you have written, I see a lot of errors that come from not enough training in mathematics and sciences, at the most least, take a course in technical writing.

also I look poorly on your attempts to patent such a generalistic equation that basically already existed.

can you really patent apple pie with ice cream on the top?

I wouldn't call you a witch, you basically have good ideas, just barking up a tree that doesn't go anywhere.

keep at it. go to school and you'll see the 'why' to the end of your 'formula'. at least go buy some books, read every page 3 times, do all the home work.

this is real simple stuff, no need to spend $100K of DOE money to show what is all ready known.

John Ruhnke

Another doubting Thomas??

JP,

I am at school right now. You are at school too. You can learn a lot of stuff here on the wall. Look, I know you don't beleive I can make Overall Efficiency Work. Most experts don't beleive it can be done. I have done the research and I beleive that together we can make it work. I am willing to spend a lot of time money and energy to get an education in Energy Efficiency so that we can make it work. I am learning everyday.

What is the harm in trying? It took Edison 1000 filiments to make the light bulb work. Edison failed 999 times before he got it to work.

Please help me.

If it works it will save the world billions in fuel bills.
Don't you feel it is worth the effort?

John Ruhnke
The Condemned Witch

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John Ruhnke

Barking up the wrong tree?

JP,

You said "his is real simple stuff, no need to spend $100K of DOE money to show what is all ready known."

I was at the ASHRAE Conference. The general idea was that Overall Efficiency would never be accuate enough to be useful. Though, I learned about many pieces from many sources at the conference. I learned enough to know that there were enough pieces available and with all of them together in the right order, I beleive it will work.

My patent involves many claims more then just the magic formula itself.

John Ruhnke



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jp_2

sale pitch

first off, lets face it, this is really a sales pitch.

you take your formula around to people,talk them into a new heating system, greater efficiency, now sell new systems to the whole world and Bang, you've save the world billions in fuel costs........

I'm behind you. go home get your system working, prove it, and I'll be glad say, ok YOU were right!

Did edison sit at home and wait for government funding? how about the wright bro's? did they get funding? who fiananced Einstein, bohr, planck.... ?

and wheres that guy who had the 50 mpg carburator back in the 50's? living in the tropics thanks to mobil oil?

I look forward to you proving me wrong.

blaming the RPA just seems like a cop out.

Steamhead (in transit)

With all due respect, guys

I have to disagree. This is the perfect forum. With all the talk about conservation and efficiency, it seems to me that we are the only ones who actually do anything about it. Many threads here on the Wall talk about various aspects of system efficiency. So when a well-known industry association kills an effort like this I'd like to know why. There might have been a good reason, but if they don't tell us we'll never know it.

We've been perfectly frank on the Wall about equipment problems. Over the years I remember a bunch of times where someone has posted that if this or that company doesn't straighten out a problem, we'll stop buying their stuff. BTW, I don't think Dan pulled any of those threads.

The same principle applies here. If a certain industry association isn't doing what it should, we don't want to make things worse by hiding it. We need to know what's going on here.

There's an old saying "If we don't tell the truth about ourselves, someone else will" (which I believe came from Theodore Vail, president of AT&T in the late 1800s/early 1900s). We need to know the truth of this matter.

I've been looking at getting more involved in industry associations like RPA, but if they are going to act like the typical small-minded bureaucracy I won't waste my time.

Remember, none of us would be here if we never questioned anything. We'd be mindlessly tearing out stuff and putting in new stuff with no idea how well it would perform.

We've heard John's side- RPA, it's your turn.





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John Ruhnke

Cop Out??

First off,

I don't have the funds available to me like the Wright Bros did.

The Wright Bros were living at home as adults with there father. They had no kids and no wife. I used to have that same situation. When I was in my twenties I lived at home and raced cars on the weekends. I loved it! I learned a lot from those days too.

I have two kids, two mortgages and a wife. I need to work hard every day just to make ends meet. On top of that I spent a lot of money on business coaches that are helping me to expand my business. I am doing this so that in the future I might have more time available to myself for invention projects. It will most likely take three years to see the results.

Meanwhile I am wasting time typing this stuff to you. Right now I am getting no where in my business or invention projects. I haven't been able to work, sleep or eat for two days because of what has happened. I don't know what to do. So I just post here because it is the only thing I can think of.

John Ruhnke
The Condemned Witch

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John Ruhnke

I'm afraid to post it here.......

Because the e-mail caused so many problems, I'm afraid to post it here.

I am not saying I am totaly inocent here. I am just saying that this is the first time I ever did anything that the board didn't like. I was always willing to listen and change my ways. It never mattered though, they just kept getting madder and madder. I don't know why. I was always honest in all of my reply's. I never disagreed with anyone. I just want to know why they made such a big deal out of this. The point that I was trying to make with the offending e-mail is an important point to make. I can't retract the point I was trying to make without sacraficing freedom of speach. The mis information I went back and corrected to the best of my ability. Yes I agree that I could have done things better. But they would say one thing to me and then plan and do other things behind my back.

Why do you think they hated me so much?

John Ruhnke

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John Ruhnke

I am going out of town for a few days.........

To Everyone,

I am going away on a trip with my family. I will be back on Tuesday. I won't have internet access. Hopefully I will feel better by then and maybe we can discuss things further. I was upset and had to get a few things off of my chest. Trust is a difficult thing. Right now I don't trust the board members. They say one thing to me and do another. so I post in open forums so people can see what is said. Also I feel I need help. I need people to help and support me. I have the entire board against me right now. I need to find some people who understand me right now.

John Ruhnke

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Constantin

John,

I hope that the matter can get resolved peacefully. As you have stated elsewhere, you have a lot of respect for the people that make up the RPA board of directors. As such, you would do well to sit back, detach your emotions for a moment, and ponder what has happened over the last two weeks.

For one, it is extremely unlikely that they hate you. They wouldn't have given you a forum/action group to head, etc. if they didn't have a lot of respect for you and your work. Being prominently displayed on their official web site is a great honor and a tribute to your tireless efforts.

So, something has transpired that pushed the board to do something extraordinary, i.e. pulling you off their site. For most organizations, this is a last resort... but, we only have your side of the story, and an abridged version at that... so I have to give the RPA the benefit of the doubt that they thought long and hard before they took these steps with you.

Communicating amongst themselves "behind your back" would be part of that, and I wouldn't hold it against them to try to come to a consensus before voting on the matter. I'd take it as evidence what a hard decision it was for them to remove you from the action group instead of simply censuring you.

A friend of mine found himself fired for the same reason you did, a bad e-mail he'd written. The night before, he joked how his e-mail was so funny, that he had a great relationship with his boss, etc... my then fiancee and I were quite horrified, tried to talk some sense into him... but pride went before reason and he found himself canned the next day. So you're not the first, nor will you be the last person to find him/herself in trouble due to e-mail.

At the very least, take it as a learning experience... read and re-read important communications to try and see how the e-mail will be preceived by the recipient. Don't write them when you're caught up in emotion as that makes it virtually impossible to say what you want to say w/o coming off wrong.

And most importantly, do not lose hope just because some RPA members rejected your offer to help. You're earnest, you try hard, and with time your idea ought to sprout and grow if it offers the payback your claim it does. Best of luck and have a great trip!

Constantin

John,

> Because the e-mail caused so many problems, I'm

> afraid to post it here.

>

> I am not saying I am

> totaly inocent here. I am just saying that this

> is the first time I ever did anything that the

> board didn't like. I was always willing to listen

> and change my ways. It never mattered though,

> they just kept getting madder and madder. I don't

> know why. I was always honest in all of my

> reply's. I never disagreed with anyone. I just

> want to know why they made such a big deal out of

> this. The point that I was trying to make with

> the offending e-mail is an important point to

> make. I can't retract the point I was trying to

> make without sacraficing freedom of speach. The

> mis information I went back and corrected to the

> best of my ability. Yes I agree that I could have

> done things better. But they would say one thing

> to me and then plan and do other things behind my

> back.

>

> Why do you think they hated me so

> much?

>

> John Ruhnke

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 96&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

Mike T., Swampeast MO

jp: Interesting that you say, "this is real simple stuff, no need to spend $100K of DOE money to show what is all ready known".

Do you really think I'd spend so much time, effort and scant monetary resources studying and reporting on my heating system experiments if this was simple stuff already known?

Let's see: The best and most curious technicians with HUNDREDS of years of combined experience in the field all seem to agree that Manual-J produces grossly overstated heat loss estimates. They also tend to agree that condensing/modulating boilers driving low temperature systems are capable of seasonal efficiency so beyond AFUE as to make comparison to other systems impossible. Most also "know" that deep, daily setback of room temperature is only efficient if you're heating a barn. They also "know" that perfect human comfort can be maintained at significantly lower than "normal American" space temperatures.

Try to find real-world loss or operational information for such a system or concept and you'll likely come up near empty!

Set up a heating system that automatically controls so many real-world variables that it's conceivably possible to accurately estimate real-time solar gain. Monitor such to the best of your ability and check, double-check, triple-check and quadruple-check to try to eliminate your "guesses" which by human nature have some basis in pre-conceived notions. Do this as a "nobody" with NOTHING to gain save an occasional pat on the head and "Good boy" even though you'd do it without either.

What do you get? Stone-cold silence. Offer your information to "authorities" and you get the same silence--that is until you notice that "new" designs incorporate your crazy ideas...

Call me arrogant if you like, but I know that I'm special and that I was put on this earth for a reason--and that reason is to change human existance for the better and more peaceful. Call me delusional but I "see energy". Call me cynical but it seems that power corrupts at least 51% of those who have it and they will do ANYTHING to retain their power.

Constantin

... and that is why...

... both of us are gathering as much data as we can. Some day, I hope to put together a nice regression analysis re: external conditions vs. load to see just where the house is in relation to the Manual J. Calculation.

That in turn will allow me to right-size the next boiler, because based on the cycling I observed in the cold nights of winter have convinced me that the one I have right now is too large.

DanHolohan

I agree

I'd like to hear their side as well. RPA?

John Ruhnke

Freedom of speach.......

Constantin,

If I am afraid to say what is on my mind to the point that I will be fired for the first screw up, then I am no longer free. Thinking hard and planning what you say so that you may save your job doesn't sound like freedom to me. I don't intend to say the wrong things. But I do every once in a while. I am not perfect. I am fighting this because I know that two years from now I will say something stupid again. 6 months from now I will say something stupid.

Most of the time I think about what I say. The stupid thing was not what I said. What was stupid on my part is that I should have confirmed the statement from the source that I heard it from first. If the offending statement were true then I would be standing by it today. I meant what I said. I was just misinformed about what was said. I should have double checked the statement ahead of time. Have you ever heard of the game telephone? Well the story went through a few generations. No one lied, but enough people got things wrong that the statement changed over time. I just never thought the statement would cause such a huge reaction. If I knew the size of the reaction, I most surely would have double and tripple checked things. Warnings are good. Advice as to what to and what not to say is good. Of course they never gave me any warnings or advice until after the fact. There is no need for a witch hunt on the first sign of a problem.

I want to live in a country that allows me to voice my opinion freely.

John Ruhnke
The condemned Witch

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jp_2

not belittling

mike, in no way shape or form do i mean that in a belittling way. I see heatloss as pretty simple science(doesn't mean I understand it 100%), i say this because the temperature ranges are narrow, the structures stays pretty much the same, most of the measurements are easy to do.

I feel all the theories necessary for this energy efficience are already out there, maybe not in exact form, but they are there.

I admit I haven't used any manualJ software, don't know exactlty what is does. my long hand calculations seemed pretty accurate. I haven't looking into it with the detail you have.

you can stand at the street corner and do heatloss.
measure btu in,drop house temp, raise temp back up, measure btu to return to temp. (simple version)plus you need to know the efficiency of the heat plant.

or you can do the detail stuff you do.

modeling a simple thing as a ball boncing can get awful complex. but at the same time its a simple observation.

sure its a shame that the industry doesn't move like the computer industry, guess thats part of capitalism, good or bad.

the reason i come to this site is because i find it interesting, if I felt it was a field for simpletons I wouldn't come here.

ps heatloss seems a lot simpler than the differential calculus I didn't understand.......

jp_2

over rated???

its fun to do, but where will all that analysis get you if you have to choose from either a 50mbtu, 80mbtu or a 140mbtu as in the munchkin series?

then how do you really pick a system that works when you want a little heat on a cool rainy 58F day, then jump to mid winter windy cold -15F day?

I would think the biggest nightmare of a contractor is a custmor screaming because the heating system is full bore and the house is only at 60F? so you gotta make sure that doesn't happen.

we haven't seen below zero in a couple years, but theres been years when we have had a week at -20F. what do you do?

Mike T., Swampeast MO

jp: Please believe me when I say that I enjoy questions and thrive on criticism in any form. I question and criticize others others so I MUST expect such from them.

In a laboratory heat loss appears to be "simple" science, but that's where accuracy and precision become so meaningful. The problem is that any device capable of measuring temperature influences that temperature by its' own mass and dimension. You may not believe me, but I can tell when my attempt to measure the temperature of a radiator begins to be corrupted by the measuring device itself. By measuring with an object I've destroyed energy transfer across space.

Are you in the trade jp?

John Ruhnke

Why haven't we heard from the board members yet?

Why haven't we heard from the board members yet?

I'll tell you why, most of them are afraid to say what they think. They will not give there true opinions here. They will think really hard and give us a planned statement. They will think about what this person might say or that person might say. They will then say what they think everyone wants to hear the most. It won't be about what they are thinking. It will be about how they can look good in the publics eyes.

John Ruhnke

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jp_2

measurement error

i understand the act of measuring influences the enviroment, can't remember the exact terminology. uncertainty principle comes to mind.

though I find it hard to image that a jk thermocouple of a couple of grams can effect the temperaure of a 70lb radiator?

just think of the energy required to raise the sensors temperature compare that to the energy contained within the radiator??? is it really measureable?

how have you determined this? I can't see this possible with low cost instrumentation?

Cosmo_3

oops

Cosmo Valavanis

Dan Foley

RPA

Dan,

I find it curious that every other time RPA business has flared up on your site, you have asked to take it elsewhere. Nonetheless, I will offer my personal opinion:

1. The business of any board, including the RPA, is just that, board business, until the entire board and staff agree on the public policy of the organization.

2. Committee business is also to stay within the boundaries of the committee until the board and staff agree to take a public position that represents the entire organization.

3. By taking RPA board and committee business to a public forum, Mr. Ruhnke has betrayed the trust of the board, his committee and the membership. This has no business being discussed in a public forum.

4. I will not discuss the particular issues involved as it has no place here. I have offered to communicate with Mr. Ruhnke in private but I have not heard from him directly. He has been in contact with both the president and the executive director of the organization. If they wish to make a public statement, then they will. I will not.

Regards,

Dan Foley

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DanHolohan

Well, Dan,

I like John. I like you too. John's pretty upset, as anyone can tell, and I figured I'd give someone a chance to tell the other side of the story since this is now out there and lots of people were reading it while I was doing a nine-hour seminar for ASHRAE-Ohio today. John's making the RPA seem pretty mean. I'm trying to be fair by giving you guys a chance to respond, which you have. Thanks.

Robert O'Connor_12

Open the discussion!

A difference in opinion is healthy, and is the only way to bring about change or inovation. This is the first time I've heard about this, and I'm interested to hear both sides.

Think!


Robert O'Connor/NJ

Steamhead (in transit)

You make

the best choice you can, JP. Manual J might be overly conservative but it's not written in stone. And any method is only as good as the information you put into it. It will be interesting to see what Constantin, Mike T. and others come up with.

The fact that some of us are questioning these things is the best thing that has happened to this industry since Dan started The Wall. Bring it on!

Stage-firing or modulation is the way out of the varying load problem. Riello is marketing a 2-stage oil burner in a few OEM apps now, I expect that Beckett and Carlin won't let themselves fall behind. The first 2-stage unit I get my hands on will go on my own boiler.

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Bob Sweet

This is why I love the Wall

Honesty and sincerity with no bull.

Ted_9

Keep it open. Conserving energy concerns us all.

I'm sick of everyone being P.C.

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

The program I use for heat loss (HVAC-Calc) repeated and forcefully stresses, "There is no safety factor built into this program."

The implication is that the heating appliance should be increased in size to give such a safety factor.

What I (and others) seem to be finding is that there is an enormous safety factor already built-in.

If the customer is screaming because the system is full-bore and won't recover in 30 minutes from nightly setback during unusually cold weather, then I say the person doing the sizing did a good job!

Unknown

Larry Drake posted a reply on John's cross-posted thread at the RPA forum, just FYI for anyone interested; link below.

RPA

Larry Drake_2

RPA Action Groups

I am sorry that John Ruhnke feels the way he does and that he has chosen this forum to vent his anger. Here are the facts about the RPA Board's actions.

The RPA Board has looked at all the RPA Action Groups that are currently listed. Of these, several have accomplished their mission and are no longer active or necessary. Others have had little or no activity for many months. Of the remaining Action Groups, only the Energy Efficiency and the Electric Radiant Action Groups have had recent member involvement.

It was the concensous of the Board that, due to the lack of overall activity, it would be best to start with a clean slate. The Board plans to establish specific, attainable, short term goals, as specified in the RPA Action Group Handbook. These goals will be assigned to new Action Group's when they arise. Under the revitalized Action Group plan, the Board is confident that members will find it more rewarding to become involved.

Although the Energy Efficiency Action Group under Mr. Ruhnke's chairmanship has been dismissed along with the other Action Groups, this does not mean that the RPA will not continue to persue solutions to the question of the energy efficiency of radiant heating.

On the contrary, the Board has made a renewed committement and moved the energy efficiency issue up the priority ladder. You will see more action on this in the near future. The Board is planning strategies to get to this goal as expediently as possible. Saving energy is rapidly becoming a national priority and the radiant industry has a tool that can help. We are keenly interested in furthering this research.

Once the RPA Board of Directors has established the goal and the vehicle for this process, all members, includling members of past Action Groups will be welcome to participate.

I hope this helps in your understanding of the situation. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to call us at the RPA office.

Best Regards,
Larry Drake
RPA Executive Director

DanHolohan

Thanks, Larry.

You didn't say it here but I notice that in your RPA-BB post you explain, "The Action Groups were designed to have a life not to exceed two years."

I suppose John knew that going in.