charging for estimates

Unknown

You have to be within some budget and you have to be reasonably priced, sure.

But I have to say... if they aren't getting it, is it the student's fault or the teacher's? If they just won't listen, that's one thing. If they listen and they don't care, then you haven't explained it in terms that mean anything to them.

Ragu_4

Closed Minds

I have found that there will be a certain percentage of folks who just are not going to listen. The skill that I need to develop is the ability to see the closed mind early enough in the process so that I don't waste any more time on a lost cause.

heatboy

It's all psychology.

Reading people, while certainly not an exact science, is much easier when you listen to every word they say when chatting. Ask a question, then keep your mouth shut and let them talk. Also, look at everything as if you were in their shoes.

The best thing I have ever done for my business, as well my personal issues, was to attend the Dale Carnegie Course a few years ago. Flat out saved my business.

hb

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mike t_2

estimates

> I'm wondering how many of you are charging for

> estimates ? I don't mean for a full blown

> drawing of a mechanical plan, just for regular

> everyday stuff . At this time of the year I

> typically have to go out at least 2-3 nights a

> week for A/C quotes . Many are getting 6 bids or

> aren't really serious. This takes lots of time

> away from my familly In addition it's sometimes

> hard to determine how serious people are , so

> with all these bids I might not be spending as

> much time with the good leads as I should.

> We've now begun charging a relativly small fee

> for an estimate so far this week we have 5 saying

> yes and 8 saying no. i can now concentrate on

> helping the 5 versus a shotgun approach for

> 13.

>

> Contractors would you be more afraid of

> missing the potential great job that could be

> hiding in the 8 who said no?

>

> Homeowners ,

> would you be happy your quote was turned around

> faster and you got some more attention payed to

> you , questions answered quicker etc. ? Or would

> you be just fuming over the audacity of someone

> charging a very small fee?


estimating is covered under corporate overhead like the phone bill or light bill or the person who answers the phone. You track the estimating hours and that helps you establish the overhead attributed to estimating be it hourly or as a lump sum.

Bob Jordan

It is in the presentation

I have read through this thread and Supply House Rick has something important to say. I am a remodeler and have joined a contractor business development group (CCN). To make a sale you need a sense of urgency, the complete buying party (whoever will be involved in the purchase decision) and the ability to pay.

You probably cannot prequalify over the phone, but if you have more leads than you can handle, then you have to select the ones you follow up on somehow. Develop a lead sheet, a script of questions of what is important. How you answer the phone starts the selling process. Do it professionally. Have a presentable vehicle and dress neatly when you show up - on time.

Next, ask a lot of questions about what they are looking for. Ask a lot of questions they can't answer. Show them that there is a lot to designing a heating system that will give them efficiency and comfort - by the questions you ask. Ask them about other experiences they have had with tradespeople in their houses. Find out what matters to them. Cleanliness? On time? Have them relive the painful experience. Let them know (not tell them) you don't do it that way. If things went well, let them know your company does it that way too. However, do not design the system for them. You have to know they are serious about buying the system and they have to understand that there is a lot to a good system design. Show them you are a professional and only take jobs you can do right. One you can stand behind. Those are the ones that will earn you raves from your customers and referrals. Yes we paid more but they took care of us and we are saving tons on heating bills and don't have the uneven haet we used to have.

When you have established your credibility, have their trust and confidence, they know that it is going to take time to put together the custom engineering for their project and now you can tell them you charge for that service. You have created value.

I do not believe you should charge to go out for the intial sales call. Would you pay someone to come out without knowing them at all? You are trying to create the feeling that you have their interest at heart. Charging for the intial call sets a bad tone and is pretty chintzy. Right? $40 or something? Just because they are talking to other contractors, getting other prices doesn't make them a price shopper. Haven't you set out to get prices but did not get additional prices when you found someone you knew was the person you wanted to buy from because they were knowledgable and you had confidence in?

Be professional and ask a lot of questions - about their needs, their sense of urgency. Try to figure out their ability and willingness to take it on financially (kind of touchy at this point). You want them to feel at this point that you are their contractor, no matter what it is going to cost. They will also know at this point from the way you handle yourself that you are not the low cost contractor. Don't tell them this. They have to feel that you provide excellent value. Perhaps more importantly, YOU have to believe that YOU give excellent value. That no one can serve them better than you can. You also want to find out if you want to work with them.

Will you get every job this way? No. Maybe not even half of your sales calls. However, you will get the jobs you can make money on, be able to service gladly if there is a problem (a great opportunity to demonstrate your reliability) and have customers that appreciate what you did for them and tell their friends and neighbors. You can then be justifiably proud of what you do. You will attract the best technicians. It takes a lot of work. A lot of education about the technical side and the business side. Probably why it is done so seldomly, but it is what has to be done to free yourself of 'price shoppers'.

It is not about price, but it is about value. If you can't show that, they will choose the lowest price. It is about selling but what I have suggested here is not selling snow to eskimos. We all hate being in that situation, whether having to come up with the knock down sales close or having our arm twisted. It is about helping the customer buy what they truly need and helping them make that decision. You have to have the customer's best interest first. If you do, they will sense that and not feel like they are being 'sold', because you aren't - in the traditional way.

Get sales training. Work smater, not harder. Raise the bar for all contractors. We work too hard for too little and take on a lot of responsibility for what we do. We should be paid well for our efforts.

bert waller

pay for extimates

If the world we inhabit was fully fair, we would all be paid for time required to do estimates. That applies also to car and shoe salesmen as well, of course. How many of you who moan about not being compensated for estimates would be freely willing to pay barbers and shoeshiners to tell you hou much their services are going to cost?

--Bert Waller--

Mitch_6

Barbers, shoe repair and car sales men.

Last time I got a hair cut the prices were on the wall.
Shoe repair (not that I have them fixed) prices on the wall.
Auto stores have stickers on the car.


Mitch S.


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George Haselton_2

estimates

> If I have inkling that they're getting 4 "bids"

> and looking primarily at installed price over

> quality, I propose a fee of one hour's labor

> refundable upon completion of the project.

>

> Ask

> what they're looking for in a system and how they

> got your name, that can tell you a lot. Give them

> a ballpark over the phone, or at least what you

> consider a minimum starting price.

>

> Existing,

> repeat customers I never charge for quotes.

> SOMETIMES I get surprised and find out a "loyal"

> customer isn't. I file it away and move on.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 384&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



I feel the public has gotten carried away assuming estimates are always free. Free things have less value sometimes. For starters, try to qualify the potential customer's seriousness before wasting time. Don't give a complete design away either. We often tell them up front that we will charge for a design and estimate if a lot of work is needed to assess the project for an accurate cost.

joel_19

update

For those saying that you don't pay for a baber estimate or car dealer or whatever remember in most cases like that you go to them , they don't come to you. Untill the moment you arrive they can be doing something else productive. We on the other hand get virtually nothing acomplished sitting in traffic.

We are now on our third week of trying this and it is working well .

I have cut the amount of jobs i look at in more remote locations. The further out we go the more exspensive it becomes to do the work so my odds where lower on those anyhow.

We have increased estimates in our 2 towns (still doing those free). The people I'm seeing are already fairly pre sold as they've been doing thier homework via the web . Since I'm lowering my running around I can respond quicker and give them a little more time.

Bonus is i've gone from filling The Nissan Titan 2-3 times a week to once.Saving vehicle wear and tear and gas.

I've also been home with familly more at night. C'mon guys hop on my band wagon, try it a couple weeks nothing to loose . "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"

Remember the defanition of insanity " Continuing to do the same thing over and over exspecting a differrent result"

Mad Dog_2

From what I have seen...in my area

I say the number is no higher than 2%! We constantly quote drastically smaller equipment and are the ones that "have some explaining to do." I know right away when I ask them if any of the other contractors took any measurements in the house. The reponse alomost always is: "Oh, no, they came in to the boiler room, spent less than 10 minutes and were gone." Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

Peace brother Rcik

Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

Alot of the seminars................................

poo-poo phone quotes. I don't believe in wasting my time or theirs either. Service calls cost. I weed out alot of lookie-loos that way too. Mad Dog

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GW

you'll never know

This is a neat thread; one that stirs the mind and heart. While I haven't had the luxury of reading all the posts (I was out of town last week, drove 9 hours for 4 days of training with two of my employees).

Joel, you're a business man, and I appreciate how you've tweaked your business model to rid yourself of "shoppers". If ho's in your area don't know that you're above the normal, or your marketing doesn't have a strong punch that you're a quality driven contractor, you and your prospective client may be wasting each others time.

It's a ridiculous notion, but why in the world does Lexus make cars that cost twice as much as their Toyota cousins? It's because there are people out there who are not worried about every single dollar; they have more discretionary income.

People with less discretionary income can not afford to hire the wrong HVAC contractor, yet they do it all the time on the basis of "shopping for best price".

I used to charge for estimates; I am the owner and my time is extremely valuable (not two digit stuff either). My thinking was if a ho doesn't want to pay he hasn't heard about us and is gathering "bids". Not my cup of tea, thank you. When we were not super busy I would do them for free. Any ho that doesn't acknowledge basic supply and demand principles are living in the Stone Age. Service providers and commodities are very different.

Now, we're finally getting a sales guy going, and we'll be doing them 'no charge'. But, guess what everyone, the sales guy needs to feed his kids too; is it likely there may be some costs added to cover this man's time and efforts? Yup.

Anyway, there is no answer for this topic. The guy who charges my end up being the best man for the job, and the guy who doesn't may be a complete hack. The same is true if we reverse these ideas.

If any ho thinks he/she can understand everything that happens before, during and after a heating or cooling installation; gosh you're sadly mistaken! So my point is if you're so hung up on a small fee, you might as well flip a coin.

Gary Wilson


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Mitch_6

Small fee

I am not hung up on the small fee and have never had the opportunity to charge it. We try to prequalify our people for the requested project. It is only if they fall out of qualification for one of two reasons 1) They are a cold call and getting multiple quotes or 2) After prequalification they are unrealistic of the scope or cost of the project but insist someone come out.

Our feeling is if we are most likely going to waste our time they may want to put up some cash because as we know time is money. We have stated as little as $45.00 and of course they say no at that point they will find someone who wants to tell them what they want to hear.

Mitch S.

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Rich_18

$

Had one guy wanting a boiler est. He lived at least 30 min away,so I said $35 for the est. He wanted to know if it would come off the price [LOL , HE'S A LAWYER] I dont even remember what I said ,but your looking at spending around $4000.00 what the hell is $35 .Its like you say we go to them , answer all questions ,burn our fuel & time , & never get the call back!

Supply House Rick

Dog you are right

Some people are absolutely blissfull in their ignorance. "I don't want to hear bout no new fangled sales ideas"

Knowledge = Power

Rick

D107

websites timesavers?

I would think that a good website would save alot of sales time (after the initial work to set it up.) As a customer I love being able to learn about the contractor from what they say about themselves, the information they display and photos of their work etc. Easier to digest some of the more technical stuff reading it at your leisure.

Some of the sites I've seen on the find a pro section on the Wall are quite good. Since many contractors I've known don't have alot of time to constantly update their sites, if the basics are set up right then a few updates a year should do it. Then there's the technique of hiring a web-pro to input the correct metatag/keywords into your site, so when a customer googles 'boiler installation in detroit,' etc. your company's name will be in the top 10.

joel_19

webbing

Next to referals we love the web hits the most. actually most referals also go through the web before they call. Strangly it seems many folks call thinking that,

A: All contractors will perform work to the level of B.E.S. even though that contractor has no real web presence and gave me a hand written 1/2 page estimate.
and

B: B.E.S will do the work for the same aprox cost of those other contractors that don't have the training , web presence , sloppy presentation etc.

This I find quite perplexing , A top notch resteraunt does not look like, or for that matter smell like a Mcdonalds or Dunkin Donuts . Folks make the connection that a beautifull hostes , linen table clothes , and nice wine list is going to cost them more than a place with a purple and orange sign

People will tell me that they are very pleased that we have 2 women who actually answer the phone in our office compared to "Bubba" who has an answering machine at best . Then in the very next breath ask why we think we can charge more. Hello!

www.boucherenergy.com

GW

Rich Rich Rich

You're killing me, $35? did you ask for a couple of bucks for gas too? I collected $125 on perhaps 10 occasions last year when the weather got hot (i didn't track it, it may have been less than 12).

Do it for "free", or charge for the gosh darn thing!

gary

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GW

the day will come

when high tech heating guys will be in more demand than all those smart people.

There are only a few guys out of 100 that really know energy diagnostics. Here's a trick question: on a 92% gas furnace, how much raw heating energy is heating the home out of every dollar spent? Please don't say 92 cents. The fact is high static pressures and leaking ducts make it 50 to 60% national average. Only tech guys like Joel, me, and other well-trained guys on this forum have the tools and know how. This education, and the diagnostic tools were purchased with hard earned money, money that could have went to my bottom line and straight into my pocket.

I realize that this doesn't give me a free ride to the "big money makers"; I still have to earn the trust of the customer.

Every year my 5-digit replacement jobs are becoming more frequent. People just want to pay once for quality, not twice for "budget work".

Gary


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