charging for estimates

Ted_9

I've started to charge for design work. but for somestrange reason, I dont charge for a/c.

<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=373&Step=30">To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"</A>

joel_19

charging for estimates

I'm wondering how many of you are charging for estimates ?
I don't mean for a full blown drawing of a mechanical plan, just for regular everyday stuff . At this time of the year I typically have to go out at least 2-3 nights a week for A/C quotes . Many are getting 6 bids or aren't really serious. This takes lots of time away from my familly In addition it's sometimes hard to determine how serious people are , so with all these bids I might not be spending as much time with the good leads as I should.

We've now begun charging a relativly small fee for an estimate so far this week we have 5 saying yes and 8 saying no.
i can now concentrate on helping the 5 versus a shotgun approach for 13.

Contractors would you be more afraid of missing the potential great job that could be hiding in the 8 who said no?

Homeowners , would you be happy your quote was turned around faster and you got some more attention payed to you , questions answered quicker etc. ? Or would you be just fuming over the audacity of someone charging a very small fee?

Tony_23

If

If I have inkling that they're getting 4 "bids" and looking primarily at installed price over quality, I propose a fee of one hour's labor refundable upon completion of the project.

Ask what they're looking for in a system and how they got your name, that can tell you a lot. Give them a ballpark over the phone, or at least what you consider a minimum starting price.

Existing, repeat customers I never charge for quotes.

SOMETIMES I get surprised and find out a "loyal" customer isn't. I file it away and move on.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Boilerpro_5

I started something like that too...

and think it is only fair. I will give people an estimate over the phone on replacments (ballpark)after spending some time talking with them (telling them some options and selling our company) and will look over drawings and give an estimate on larger new installs, but if they want a real number, it will cost at least something. If people are unwilling to pay a small nominal fee, it is highly unlikely they will be willing to pay for a proper install and good equipment that will be beneficial to them. They think the Sprawl Mart mentality is the way to go. Its funny they don't expect to be able to have a doctor come visit there home to give an estimate on a surgery? On the few occasions where I did not chnarge a fee, I got burned anyway.

Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mitch_6

I would love to bill for estimates.

We have tried to tell cold calls $45.00 for an estimate like a boiler swap since we spend time actually figuring out what they need. No one bites for a $1.00 since so many are going out for free but they are not spending time properly sizing the system.

I believe mark had a good thread on the topic. I am totally frustrated on bid work. We try to prequalify on the phone both there expectation on cost and how many bids people get.

Most of my large work is from existing service customers so
I am not always biding but negotiating. Some of my accounts do get prices but I have my foot in the door can explain what I do and bring some trust, if not and someone ells gets the big job there account is closed. Several people have called me with off hour emergency and we tell them "call the guy that did your remodel"

Cold calls are another issue, If it is a referral we may go out to keep the reference happy. If not we try to see how serous they are, if they are getting more than three bids we tell them they are all set, if we are slow we may go out depending on how the job sounds. As stated up to if it sounds like a wast we say $45.00 but I have never had the opportunity to bill that one out.

Welcome to self employment.

Mitch, S.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

joel_19

more info

We don't charge for repeat customers and not for ones in our town. I can't screen them all simply don't have time. We have a secretary who is trained to ask some basic questions. Currently charging a modest 35$ not to make money , just trying to thin the herd. I thought if too many say yes i could raise it to 50$ or if everybody said no drop it to 20$. If 45$ isn't working at all for you i'd try dropping it and see what happens . I figured try it for a month or two and see . Nothing ventured nothing gained.... "welcome to self employement" been running one or more companies since I was 14 and hired two other guys to help me mow lawns. Probably couldn't work for someone else i've never written a resume!

A.J.

My two cents

People tend to think that they are getting a Chrysler when they get a new A/C or boiler installed by a contractor.
You can go to any dealership and pick up the exact same car for different prices depending on how much the dealer wants to get for the sale. Not so with heating and cooling installations which can be anywhere from a poor preforming system to a system what doesn't work. We offer a bigger value that the O.E.M.and that is that we need to push in are work and the bidding processes.
If I am the fourth bidder on a job I know they are not serious about a good job. We all have lost jobs only later to find a job that you wouldn't want any one to know you did let alone get paid for.
Dan's column in Plb & Mech. this month is just another example. Thanks for another good article Dan.

[Deleted User]

My Perspective

This wholesale employee has been after our management to charge a nominal fee for the estimates we provide our contractors. I agree with all the comments I have read on this topic as they also apply to the distibutors you deal with.

At this time we still provide free service to the contractors and the loyal contractors will always be provided this service. My only concession to this would be to charge a nominal fee for the job that we estimate a second, third and fourth time due to homeowner changes.

With the competitive market in the wholesale industry where profit is made by the product itself and not by labor, I think with today's ecomomy you will see this service become a fee based service.

Trip
Advanced Service
for
Advanced Contractors

D107

Thin Line between estimate and consultation

I had some wallies over last fall; I wasn't ready to have a new boiler installed but needed to start the ball rolling and get some ideas of ways to go and general cost. One charged me to come out which I thought was fair. He was basically giving me his analysis of my system; took about 45 minutes, saw all the rads. I'd already calculated the existing EDR. Another took a little less time and refused to take a fee. The first also quoted me an additional price for a heat calc which I thought was fair. I'll probably have him back to do it; in the meantime I've been educating myself, doing my own heat calc via the Hydronics Institute Guide. I've also had a blower door test and have been sealing up my house with blown-in-cellulose and caulking etc. so that when I'm ready to do a formal heat calc the house will be tighter and maybe I can have a smaller boiler installed.

It's one thing if I call a plumber to give me a price on a few small house repairs; or if a painter comes out for 20 minutes to give me a price. I don't think I'd pay for that, though I recognize that even there between travelling and computing it's going to be at least 60-90 minutes of work time. I'm sure that has to get built into their pricing.

But heating/AC seems alot more intricate and involved, more calculations, choices and inspection of existing conditions. I guess a contractor who gets a call should ask the customer when they plan the installation if it's not obviously imminent. One thread mentioned licensing heating contractors which might be a good idea. (Probably have to grandfather in the people already doing it so as not wreak havoc with their business.) I feel if plumbers have to be licensed, then certainly heating specialists should. Or at least they could attach that additional certification to the plumbing license. Perhaps this energy crisis will be pushing more HOs to the more complex mod/cons and and the heating field will be in the spotlight more.

David

joel_19

thanx

thanx for your reply it's good to here from an H.O. We also do whole house energy audits with a blower door and charge a fee for it as i consider that consulting esp. if we are also measuring duct leakage etc. I'd like to do it on every call as it is the only way you can really do an accurate heatloss . Without knowing the actual infiltration you are just making an educated guess. Recently had a house loosing 43% of it's furnace created energy through ductlosses and that also increases the infiltration on the house as well.

Leo

From an employee perspective

I seldom do installs but helped on one Thursday. Yesterday I'm back to tweak a couple things. It took an hour and a half for me to do a half hour job, why? I kept hearing how great my boss is, how one company (oil) of thirty years just lost a customer and how another long term dieseal customer may be coming to us also why? Three bids, long term company comes to house, looks around asks nothing and hardly speaks to lady customer (wife of business owner who does the books). Company that sells fuel and oil hates company one so says I will beat any price they give and mails quote sight unseen. Our company, boss goes, spends time, gives options, mails quote right away, gives follow up to be sure quote arrived. Calls a week later. Got this customer by word of mouth to start with, got the job and was paid in full at the end of the install.(doesn't charge for quote) Installed a Buderus and new indirect. Got the oil account and may get the dieseal account (five tt units) once our owner gives that quote.

It feels good to hear the company I work for complimented, I have worked for companies where I had to take the insults too and it isn't pleasant.

Leo

Paul_58

HO perspective

Joel, you are going to have to tell my why I should pay for an estimate if your competition provides this gratis. Consider this a great opportunity for you to sell your strengths and the value added you provide to your customers. From this exchange I should gain confidence in your ability to provide a first class design and installation, and you should have a better idea if I am a qualified lead. Good luck.

Garret

another homeowner perspective

I try to be aware of what "free work" I'm asking contractors to do in the bidding process. I've worked in hourly consulting before (doing website programming) so I know how painful it is to waste your time meeting with a tire kicker who doesn't really have money to spend, and never calls you back. Years ago, I remember one client meeting where we invested 5 staff members time for about a two-hour meeting, talking about developing an ecommerce site for a local seed company. Quick ballpark, we were thinking it would be a $30,000 project given what they were asking for... somehow no one had set expectations, and the folks had at most $1000 to spend. At $100/hour, we'd already burned that budget...

When I call a contractor for a project, I try to put myself in his shoes, and gauge the line where what I'm asking for goes beyond the scope of a quick estimate, and into consulting work. I'll often say that I would like to be told if what I'm asking for in "prework" is too much, and if so, I'm willing to pay consulting time. I'd rather do that than scare someone off with all my questions. I know I'm a lot higher maintenance than many customers, but I also believe I'm less risk. When I sign a contract, the contractor and I know exactly the scope, and there are no surprises. I also give contractors the opportunity to try new products that they might not get the chance to use on other projects. For example, I decided in my bath to use an epoxy grout (tile guy hated me, but I tipped him well)... our siding is fiber cement, not vinyl, etc...

All that said, I very rarely select a contractor by price... usually I'm trying to judge the experience and competence of the person/company, looking for value, and for willingness to work with me to share decision making.

Mitch_6

Competition

Define competition, there are those that give top shelf service and there are bottom dwellers. The car purchase example was the best but take it further. Yes you could shop one Corvette to another but not a Yugo to a corvette. Also the dealers treat you different on service after you bought the vet but you can take it to any dealer for service.

As to selling value, no one says they are going to do a cheap job for the low dollar, everyone says they are the best.

I know allot of "my fellow tradesmen" in my work area that do the same quality level of work. They are not the competition, in fact we price jobs about the same and use similar products. The competition is the person that sells his job 20% less than the rest. He gets the job, makes more than the rest due to short cuts and the rest of us have to decide to make less on a job or drop our quality.

I would make more profit by low balling and slaming the boiler in then walking away then doing it right, it takes way more time and material than the 20% difference.

In this field we do not truly get the apples to apples comparison you get by pricing the same car at two different
dealerships.

Mitch S.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ragu_4

Excellent Topic

This one is quite timely for me, as I have kept track of my quoting time since Jan. 1 of this year. To date I have quoted 11 jobs and have dedicated 57 hours of unbilled time. Two of those quotes have resulted in signed contracts; that is not a good ratio.

I have decided that anything more than a quick peek and ballpark "guesstimate" MUST have a fee attached because it is real work to take all the necessary steps that are required to provide an accurate price for a quality heating system. Additionally, I have found that I can no longer do the drawing, heat loss calculations, materials lists, product specifications, pricing etc. after I get home from work, as I am too tired of brain and body to be accurate. I have to do that stuff when I am fresh, which means it cuts into the workday, which translates into some form of billable time.

Since I have taken on the responsibility to do the bulk of my own heat losses and engineering, I have found that there are VERY FEW of us who do our own specifying. I have also found that I now am INTIMATELY familiar with the jobs I have engineered.

Yes, it hurts when I lose a job to a lowballer, and it hurts even more when they are unlicensed and uninsured. I think it hurts the WORST when I was wrong on my mental pre-qualification of the potential customer.

I will now charge a refundable design fee for this work.

By the way, great homeowner input from both Paul and Garrett. In a nutshell, when the 20% of good contractors get hooked up with the 20% of good customers, great things happen.

Boilerpro_5

A figure for those that Figure, Ragu

I believe that I just read in The News, that only 14% of contrators conduct a heat loss calculation for a home. You are right on the money in your feelings about most other contractors......they are not professionals.

Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

D107

On the other hand how many homeowners think a heat calc

is neccesary? If no one asks, then maybe the other 86% don't get. Had to push really hard to get my Mom to agree to one. Some may feel it's contractor smoke and mirrors 'the current boiler's been working fine for thirty years, what's the problem?' Great thing is, now with the internet/The Wall, info is much more accessible and hopefully everyone will educate themselves. I think places like Home Depot have also re-kindled a greater sense of self-reliance.

David

Paul_58

Mitch,

First of all I'm sure you know your competition. If you have time to vent here among those that will agree with you, don't you think you owe it to yourself and your customers to let them know what sets you apart? How else will they know? Secondly, Joel has more leads than he can handle and is testing a way to qualify customers - excellent business sense! Home owners that would shop price exclusively might be willing to pay for an estimate, and more for the job, if they understood the value Joel adds via his expertise. And last but not least, from lurking on the Wall and absorbing what I can, I believe there are the Artists, the Technicians, the Competent, and the Bottom Dwellers in your field. Let your customer know what you are!

Josh S.

I have been struggling with the same problem. We almost never give the customer a heat loss because of the time and effort that is rarely recouped. I can say that I have lost a few bids to competition who did do heat losses (for free), and offered the customer a smaller boiler for less. I feel it is worth while to do a heat loss on boilers over 100,000 BTUs, but anything under that can be safely ballparked at either the 60,000 or 90,000 BTU range. I would rather lose one or two estimates out of 50 to someone who sized the boiler a little smaller, than do a free heat loss for 50 customers. A heat loss calcuation is taking me an additional 1 to 2 hours an estimate where I either size it to the existing boiler or ballpark it. I know Dan says in his book that the program he recommends can reduce the time it takes to do a heat loss to 15 minutes, but you still have to run around all over the house measuring every window and room. I wonder if most contractors are doing heat losses on a lap top in the customer's home?? I could see where this could save time and be used as a selling point. I can also see where a contractor can give a customer an estimate based on ballpark sizing, and then offer the heat loss as an upsell.

Leo

Now from a Homeowner Perspective

I would have to be sold on paying for an estimate. How much time is spent on it? Do you put as much time into a cookie cutter type house you are very familier with for a simple change out as you would on a steam to hw or scorched air to radiant job. There are some jobs that basically need a quote as opposed to the job that needs designing. Sell me, as perception is everything. Before coming into the business I had a steam system removed and got three bids for asbestos removal. The first guy was dressed contractor casual like you would expect the boss. The second was a girl who was dressed casual like the owners's daughter right out of college. The third did it over the phone he was scratched before the end of the phone call. The first guy sent a written proposal, he was slightly the highest. The girl came in next but called me with the proposal. I went with the highest in this case because the guy was slightly more professional than the girl but very close in my opinion. Unless it is word of mouth or I know you as I am from a small town appearance and your demeanor mean a lot to me.

Leo

John R. Hall

Set yourself apart

Sorry Josh, but doing a heat loss as part of the overall load calculation is what is going to set you apart from most of the other people bidding the same work. There will always be someone else in your market willing to go the extra mile. Why not you?

Supply House Rick

Sales Not Price

Polish your skills in Sales/Presentation/Closing. Sales is a process not an event. By improving in these areas you will continually get the best jobs from the best customers. Prove value and you will win.

I have been on too may to count jobs with contractors where they give a quick presentation and say "just let me know" or the dreaded "If it's too high, let me know and maybe I can crunch the numbers" As a professional salesperson I could have died.

I have been told countless times by installers "I ain't no salesperson" YES YOU ARE. Every facet of life is sales.

The people with the best interpersonal skills will decide who wins and loses in this and every century.

Raise your rates, prove value AND look them in they eye and ask them for their business...

Rick

Ted_9

sale

Supplyhouse Rick is right. For examnple, I do a heatloss/heat gain on 90% of the jobs I look at. I waste tons of time and I dont get every job I look at. My problem is sales.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mitch_6

Paul

Let me correct myself but first I primarily come here to learn and share experiences with my fellow tradesman, the venting is just for therapy.

My complaint is not selling value to "my" customers they know me and the value my company brings.

My complaint and from what I have read is a common complaint is people (cold calls) getting multiple quotes and price shopping.

I have often pre qualified a HO and said say 7 - 9K for a boiler and indirect they say ok come on down. I go to the house measure everything check the gas supply, check for adequate combustion air, check for proper piping and have a sweep check the flue give them a written estimate with brochures from the water heater and boiler manufacturer with a price of 8K and there response is O I was expecting 5K for the job. Total waste of time.

And yes like Joel I also get more calls than I can field, I only take on the work load I can handle and be fair to my customers I routinely give jobs to other companies rather than throw the lead away.

Saying that, I have had several insidents of people wanting prices and the jobs done right away and our reply is we are booked and cannot do the work for several months. The reply back is well can you at least send someone out to give us a price anyways so we know how much this should be.
Our reply if we send some one out we have to bill for there time. There reply "no thanks". They just want a "free estimate".

The argument is just the simple waste of time spinning the wheels for free, most of us work 60 hour weeks or more if self employed we want to do the work and estimating is more an irritant than a pleasurable experience. I would rather have an install expected at 10 hours take 14 than spend 4 hours on an estimate for a job I will never get.

Just venting again

Mitch S.


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

[Deleted User]

Professionals

Gentlemen,

I have found this topic and thread comments to be typical to our heating contractors in my region. You all make valid points that in "my" point of view is easy to fix.

Think for a moment, what you all have accomplished to this point in your career. At some point in time you had decided to enter into this field and began your apprenticeship school. After your 2-6 year of college heating school, you earned the right to take your exam for your highly sought after degree,your "Liscense". Now, if you want to furture your education and go after a specialty field, let's say A/C or Plumbing, you again spend hours in school "EARNING" your "SPECIALTY DEGREE".

So, at the beginning, you have spent many years of sacrifice to offer a positive benefit to the public that offers them a value add to their life. The artistic redition your are gifted with is like any great artist, doctor, attourney, Plasma TV technician. See the light yet?

I don't understand what is the difference in how you have made the same type of sacrifice a doctor or attourney made in attaining their degree. When was the last time you went to one of these guys and not paid a consultation fee?????

Gentlemen, you are no different on the time and education spent as these professionals did. Why do we feel we are a lessor to this type of professionals. When you speak with an attourney you are paying for the knowledge he learned from his scooling and his apprenticship work. When did you ever have him give you some type of product to collect a fee. The same goes with a doctor.

It kills me to see what we in this field are willing to give away for free,"your knowledge" Forget about wondering what others are doing and begin by making a professional presentation to aid you in your sales. People are out their to help if you don't know how to do this.

A good attourney or doctors promotes himself through word of mouth and advertising himself. Contact your local wholesale house and inquire if they can help you in this task.

Mark Hunt

Sometimes


it's better to let someone else do the selling. I worked for a huge company years ago that had a dedicated sales force. Most of the saleman were former car salesman and knew spit about HVAC systems BUT they could sell ice-cubes to eskimos. They wore ties and dress pants even though they were often in some nasty places. They looked good. Believe it or not, THAT makes a difference.

I do not believe that everyone will be good at sales, some are just better than others. If you can't bring on a sales person, perhaps some sales training would be a good investment.

I can recommend a GREAT video on sales by Brian Tracy. It is called "The Art Of The Close"(Nightingale productions).

Sales tools are a big help as well. Carry before and after pics with you on sales calls. A huge boost in your closing ratio if you bring REAL evidence of what YOUR system design will accomplish. Get your past customers to write letters detailing their experience with your company AND your system. If your system knocked their fuel consumption by 30%, get it in writing and show it off! If your system design addressed an issue that the other guys ignored, get it in writing and show it off!!

A new customer has no idea who you are or why you are different from the others. If they got your number from the YP's, you ARE the same as all the rest listed there in the customers eyes. A customer IS going to buy something, that is a given. WHO the buy it FROM is the challenge.

Mark H



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

joel_19

uh huh

My farther n law sans health insurance just went to see a heart surgeon for an office visit . Note the doctor did not go to his house . 20 minutes = 350$ no blood tests, x rays or anything just a consultation. Secretary asked for the credit card upfront on the phone before she'd even set the appointment. That makes us worth 1/10th at 35$ (actually less i spend way more than 20 minutes.) , and people think we aren't even worth that 1/10Th!.
lets get the revolution for respect started through PHCC , ACCA etc. and a way to get started is stop giving it away.

Supply House Rick

Case in point

I had two customers bidding on the same house. The homeowner was iternet savvy and decided Buderus was a great product, so one of the contractors worked up a GB142 quote with all the bells and whistles a $20k bid. He LOST by $60k because the other guy did a full blown dog and pony show with the Geothermal Rep showed absolute value for the $80k and freaking got the sale. Efficiency doesn't sell, people do!

If a customer says NO, it's not the price that bothered them it's that you couldn't prove value.

I disagree with Mark. I believe that everybody is a good salesperson. Remember when you took you significant other out for the first time? You were selling like no other were you not? See! If you prove value and ask for the business you will be successful more times than not.

Don't take it personal if they say no, success is defined by moving from one failure to the next with enthusiasm. Success comes to those who try and keep trying...

Rick

heatboy

Can't you come look at it?

A few weeks ago I received a call from a gentleman that had water leaking from the boiler. We discussed the issue and after questions it was determined that the diaphragm in the compression tank was ruptured or just low on pressure. "Can you come look at it?". My reply, "Yes, sir, the minimum visit charge is $188.50 and I have everything needed to repair." "But I just want you tell me what's wrong." "OK, but it's still $188.50 for the visit." (It was a 30 minute drive.)

He had two other guys in their that gave him "free" estimates and I guess he thought I would do the same. My little voice was telling me he wasn't going to hire me anyway even though I told him what was wrong over the phone. So, one of those guys got the job and the other one wasted all the time for a "negative cash flow" estimate. All I lost was 20 minutes on the phone.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Supply House Rick

Rick is right

This post should not be overlooked. Everyone of us who think we are already the best salespeople really have much to learn. How many of you are professionally trained in Sales? Maybe 5%, the rest just think we are the best ever! Instead of books and tapes and seminars just ask everybody you know who is successful in sales for tips and insight on how they do it consistantly. Successful people are willing to do the things that the non-successful people won't do.

Ask questions, good people usually provide good answers. My supplier sales guy has been really helpful, swallow your ego and ask.
Pete

Supply House Rick

Thank You

Pretty much Sales runs all facets of business. It begins and ends there. Those who do not become students of their trade are lacking in skills necessary to reach the upper echelon. To take the next step...

Hone and fine tune Sales/Presentation/Closing you will be surprised how financially successful you will become.

Rick

Mark Hunt

Allow me to quibble

Each person has within them the POTENTIAL to be a great (fill in the blank), they may not have the ambition to be a great (fill in the blank).

You have to love what you do. If you don't, how can you expect to put 100% of your potential to work??? Just for money??? I'll bet I could list 1000 things that no sane person would do for ANY amount of money. So money as a "motivator" is not infallible. In fact, it sucks.

I worked with a man that could not give a job away. Why? Because he SO DIDN'T CARE about what he was doing and the customers caught that. If you could have heard the message on his voice-mail you would want to cut your wrists it was so depressing. Marvin the Robot from "The Hitch-hikers Guide to The Galaxy" was more enthused!!!

I do not believe that every person can do every job equally well, simply because they do not want to. Next time you need to have surgery, ask the doc why he bacame a surgeon. If he says, "The money is good"......you might want to look for a new Doc.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

I think the key to sales in this industry is simply a few key points:

1. KNOW YOUR STUFF. Know WHY what you're doing is better than a "lowball joe" cookie cutter system. You know it's not going to be cheaper, you MUST know why it's BETTER. If you don't.. time to drop those prices until you do.

2. This is the tricky part. You need to be able to EXPLAIN why what you do is better, in PLAIN ENGLISH. This means you have to know more than the tech jargon. You need to know how to boil that jargon down into terms a layman can understand.

3. Even more tricky. You can't explain *everything*, or you'll make the clients head spin (unless you do this in writing; email is your friend!).. they will ask questions if they want to know more. You have to figure out the 2-3 key points of what is better about what you bring to the table, and explain those, and those ONLY. If your up front price is higher, then those things should probably include comfort and/or efficiency. Value!

If you can master those 3 steps, personally I think you've got "technical sales" down. If you can do technical sales, then you can charge for estimates successfully (for new clients only!) by easily explaining the steps and time involved with doing an estimate and why those steps are important, and why anyone not doing those steps is offerring an inferior service that could easily generate inferior results.

Do not rely on scare tactics! Stick to the facts; if they are on your side, and you can explain them... you've got it.

That's just my two cents, I'm sure the tricks and insight into sales out there fills many books I've never read and probably never will. But I'd rather spend my time reading about new technology I can offer my clients to give them better systems!

Mark Hunt

I agree Rob


Everything we do in our day to day lives is governed by the same laws of physics that our heating systems MUST obey.

Find something in your customers house that they use everyday that will explain one of those laws. When they "see it" in their minds, they understand. No reason to "dazzle them with how much smarter you are than the other guy(s)/gal(s)" if they can't relate to what you just said. You will watch their eyes dry out. Believe me! I made it happen on numerous occasions.

I do not like or use "tricks" when it comes to sales. Never have. A "trick" to me means an illusion, something that is not real. In my book that is a LIE. NEVER LIE!!

Tell the truth but arm yourself with MORE truth than the folks you are bidding against. Coming off as a pompous **** will get you shown to the door quick. Wouldn't matter if your price was lower and your design was better. You insulted the customer. You lose.

Samson destroyed 100,000 Philistines with the jaw-bone of an ****......everyday 100,000 sales are destroyed with the same weapon.

Think about it.

Mark H



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Supply House Rick

You Have Applied Yourself Well

That's why you own a company and don't punch a clock. I didn't become successful until I went proactive and stopped being reactive. That is a choice not a skill. I have never said people are good at this and not at that. I have said that to be at the top in this and any service oriented business you have to polish your skills and surround yourself with people with integrity who are driven to succeed and yes, that starts with sales...Selling yourself to your boss, your customers, the bank for a business loan, your suppliers to increase your credit limit, etc. Isn't that sales?

I went into sales because I wanted to be able to control my income and not let someone else dictate what they think I'm worth. It takes intestinal fortitude but the rewards out weigh the failures if you become a student of your trade.

This applies to all walks of life...

Rick

D107

great post NRT

. Even more tricky. You can't explain *everything*, or you'll make the clients head spin (unless you do this in writing; email is your friend!).. they will ask questions if they want to know more. You have to figure out the 2-3 key points of what is better about what you bring to the table, and explain those, and those ONLY.>

I think you make some great points. As a customer,I always appreciate some helpful brochures with some of the more technical info that I can digest later. These brochures provide not only info but shed light on the philosophy and quality of work of the contractor.

I had alot of contractors over this year for roofing, gutters, etc. and was amazed at how some of the big corporate 'chain' firms try to pressure you into signing something on the spot because the 'price is going up tomorrow'. When I called him on it he shrugged his shoulders and said that's what his boss wanted him to say. Sad to say I bet the technique works to a degree, but I think this thread is about higher aspirations than that.

Thanks,

David

Mad Dog_2

LOve ya rick....but I will have to disagree with YOU twice

1) There are a good many folks that WILL NOT listen to reason. 2)Some people just plain stink!!!! at sales. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Supply House Rick

Yes Mad Dog, and

The world will always need ditch diggers. I was offering advice on sales, getting ahead and staying ahead. To close you need to prove value it's as simple as that. People lose sales not because their work is inferior, their presentation is lousy. I am not putting anyone down, just sharing what has helped me give my 5 children the life they deserve... There are methods that work, you just have to find out what they are and how they will work for you. Not like car sales, long term repeat business with great word of mouth advertizing. If I came off any other way I apologize. I have seen many mechanics become well off because they can close. The rest are in the shadows wishing they had more and insulted by advice...
Rick

Mark Hunt

Yes Rick


but I could have happily stayed with what I was doing. Problem was I wasn't that happy. I loved the trade, but hated doing it the way the I was told. Especially after reading some of Dan's books and going to a few of his seminars. The truth will set you free, but only if you want to be free.

My Dad turned wrenches on steam turbines in building 273 at GE's main plant in Schenectady, NY. He always taught me that what ever I chose to do, I must do with all my heart.

I teach my son and daughter the same lesson. Do what you LOVE to do. That is what they will do best.

Lawyer, doctor, plumber, engineer......etc....

I'm here because I chose it.......IT did not choose me.

Do what you do best, let others do the same.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Supply House Rick

My Theory was annililated this morning

A customer called this morning and inquired about ECOFLEX, 160' two pipe to run to a Wood Boiler. Gave him the price, he said " wow, that's too much money" I said, do you want it done right or hope it doesn't freeze? He said "I'll take my chances it doesn't freeze" "That's way too much money!"

I give, uncle uncle I give. It wasn't his money, he had no shot at proving value, has no salemanship whatsoever. This is the 10th time he has asked for advice and took the hope it works way out.

Mark, Mad Dog you are right. Some people have it and some don't. The world will always need ditch diggers (I think that's from Caddyshack)

Everyone would have their own company if all could sell. I now back out gracefully from this post...

Rick

Mitch_6

Price checking

The ability to sell value only works sometimes. People getting more than three prices are shopping for the lowest bid.

I have compared what I will deliver for the dollar and presented it properly to the HO. All allot of them care about is the bottom dollar.

I have herd on may occasion "I will make him (the low ball-er) do it right or I will not pay" But in most cases the HO feels hay its just heat if I save 20% on the install it will still work fin for me.

And that is the prevalent attitude. I have recently been to several High end homes and seen the pretty abortions someone made money on and walked away before the HO new any better.

Greed trumps Value more often then not.

Mitch S.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"