Condensing boilers

Andy Byrnes · January 2008

The Baxi/Mascot boiler has been available for a couple of years now in the UK and Is sold under two different brands.
Baxi Platinum with 5 year Warranty.
Potterton Gold with 3 year Warranty.
The only difference between boilers is price.

The boiler has proved to be very reliable as have most condensing boilers available in Europe.

The European version uses a Isothermic heat exchanger which is encased in a plastic housing
(most boilers use this type of ht/ex now)
As long as the system is flushed and cleansed well it will prove reliable.

This is the UK web page.
http://www.baxi.co.uk/products/literature/Baxi_Platinum_Brochure.pdf

Cheers Andy B.

Joe_20 · March 2006

Condensing boilers

Does anyone have good / bad experiences with the following condensing boilers ? I was looking over the spec sheet on the Lochinvar and it sounds interesting.....

Muchkin...SS heat exchanger, outdoor reset not included

Weil Mclain...cast aluminium exchanger, outdoor reset included...

Lochinvar...SS heat exchanger, outdoor reset included.

It would appear all these are pretty much the same...does any stand out in price,quality, service, operation?

Empire_2 · March 2006

Ultra by Weil McLain

I really like the new Weil McLain line. We have been installing the Ultra series for some time now. They are mose costly, but I love how it performs and Yea I think all the hi eff. boilers should come with the Outdoor Reset control. Paying extra for it will sway my purchase decision.

Mike T.

hr · March 2006

My favorite 3

are the ones you named. They all have pros and cons.

I like the mounting options and top and bottom connections on the Ultra. Easy acess to all the components for working and adjusting.

My biggest gripe is those cheesy compression adapters at the boiler block. They tend to leak and even split sometimes. Poor design for a boiler connection. I've removed that whole pipe and used 1-1/4 nipples into the block, although the factory doesn't officially approve of that method. They have upgraded the cover gaskets, a big plus.

The Munchkin has the most time in the field, they seem to be ahead of the rest on refinements. I still can't get comfortable with the plastic case. Seems to warp and leak, and looks a little too low end. Factory support has been right on when I have questions.

Currently I think the Lochinvar has the edge. It comes with a nice controller and name brand circ pump. Also standard ASME listing. Nice jacketing and all my customers comment about the "looks" Very good factory support also.

Local supply and support, regarding repair parts in stock could help sway a choice of brands

I hope to do a Mod Con boiler comparison for a trade mag, soon. Currently I have a Lochinvar Knight, MZ, & Laars Mascot. I'd like to add a Munchkin, Slant Fin Bobcat and Triangle Tube Prestige to the line up.

hot rod

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Jim_65 · March 2006

Bobcat?

HR

I haven't heard anything on the Slant Fin Bobcat yet.

We installed our first Knight and you are correct with the homeowner's response. Plus the installation went very smooth.

Looking forward to a training session next week on the Prestige.

Your article sounds like a very interesting read. I will keep an eye out for it.

Thanks!

Art M. · March 2006

ASME Listing

Is it important to have ASME? On the Munchkin you have to pay extra for it!

Steve Goldstein · March 2006

Baxi?

Why didn't the Baxi Luna modulating/condensing boilers make it into your mix?

hr · March 2006

does the Baxi look

like this? I've not installed a Baxi but it may be the same unit as this Laars.

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Steve Goldstein_2 · March 2006

Looks the same

Yes, the Baxi Luna HT looks like that Laars. What do you think of the Laars?

hr · March 2006

The Mascot

just showed up this week. I'm waiting on a few more parts before I start the install. A number of features I like and a handful of head scratchers.

The install and operation will tell more of a story for me.

hot rod

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Steve Goldstein_2 · March 2006

Keep me posted

Please let me know how the install goes. Thanks.

Dave Stroman · March 2006

I like the Trinity. Have not had any more problems than any other boiler. Seems like all the brands are making improvments as time goes on. The Lochinvar seem very impressive but this boiler is very new.

Dave in Denver

Greg_36 · March 2006

Aerco condensing boilers

I'm assuming you guys are talking about condensing residential units....?? If so, I am a little 'green', but a phenominal commercial boiler(s) that keeps getting better and better are made by Aerco out of NJ. Most of their boiler's are anywhere from 90-99% efficient....meaning that the efficiency is based on the temperature of the condensate. Check out their website @ http://www.aerco.com ..they have a number of products and will be offering a 300k BTU unit soon. I have searched all others out there and nothing compares. Thanks.

Greg_36 · March 2006

Aerco condensing boilers

I'm assuming you guys are talking about condensing residential units....?? If so, I am a little 'green', but a phenominal commercial boiler(s) that keeps getting better and better are made by Aerco out of NJ. Most of their boiler's are anywhere from 90-99% efficient....meaning that the efficiency is based on the temperature of the condensate. We have installed hundreds.....Check out their website @ http://www.aerco.com ..they have a number of products and will be offering a 300k BTU unit soon. I have searched all others out there and nothing compares. Thanks.

Ike Gatlin · March 2006

interesting

"Most of their boiler's are anywhere from 90-99% efficient....meaning that the efficiency is based on the temperature of the condensate."

Just exactly how do they do that? Rate efficiency based on the temperature of the condensate?

Ike

Joannie_11 · March 2006

Return Temp

> "Most of their boiler's are anywhere from 90-99%

> efficient....meaning that the efficiency is based

> on the temperature of the condensate."

>

> Just

> exactly how do they do that? Rate efficiency

> based on the temperature of the

> condensate?

>

> Ike

Joannie_11 · March 2006

Return Temp

I think he means that it is based on return water temp, not condensate temp.

Aerco, like most of us in the commercial condensing market, publishes a graph that shows the efficiency vs. the return water temp.

Ike Gatlin · March 2006

and...

That is why I asked the question.
I am familiar with the publishing practices of manufactures.

So... I ask again, are you sure that is based on condensate temperatures?

[Deleted User] · March 2006

Simple...

The closer the condensate temperature is to the return water temperature, the higher the efficiency.

You too can use this marketing trick on YOUR mod con appliance:-) (tongue FIRMLY planted in cheek)

ME

Brad White_9 · March 2006

Hydrotherm for Commercial

has a new line designed by Ken Cohen (designer of the KC line in Aerco and others). The HydroTherm model is called the KN series. It is of all things cast iron but with counterflow it prevents re-evaporation. We recently witnessed a test firing and grilled Ken on quite a few aspects of his design. It passed. 21 year HX warranty. Such a deal.

Aerco is a good product, sure.

What I like best about the KN is the Dungs gas valve (see Munchkin). Runs on low gas pressure (2.0 inches) which in Boston and environs is a boon. No gas booster needed as with other manufacturers.

The KN has a 2.0 million, 1.0 million and a 600 MBH input array for now. Ken is working on a lesser model, 200 and I believe 100 MBH on the same principle.

Shaun Anderson · March 2006

I'd like to here from you Hot Rod on what you think of the Mascot. Looking at either trying to stock Mascots or the Knight. I like the Knight so far but I havent seen too much on the Mascot yet.

Thanks

Greg_36 · March 2006

Aerco

Sorry it took me a while to get back involved....I am not around a computer much....I took this info. from Aerco's website....in addition I have seen it.....As for Ken Cohen, I am familiar with his past....what types of Nox capabilities does his new equipment have?? Aerco will be offering a 3million BTU/Low Nox unit soon....in addition to the low Nox equipment they now have.

From web: This is regarding their 2mill. btu Benchmark unit.
"It has condensing capabilities, extracting as much heat as possible from the products of combustion;
It has fully modulating firing capabilities, firing from a minimum of 100,000 Btu/H input to a maximum of 2,000,000 Btu/H input. This enables it to match the heat input to the load requirements precisely. Hence, losses from cycling are minimal;
Its electronic control system maintains header temperature to +/- 2°F, eliminating wasteful temperature overshooting and droops.

These three factors combined in the Benchmark boiler package yield the highest achievable part-load efficiencies. Single point efficiencies range from 86% to 99%+. Because there is no one efficiency, but rather many, which depend upon firing rate and return water temperatures, which are expressed in a series of curves below...." I obviously didn't add these to the note here but see their site.

Thanks

Mike C_3 · March 2006

condensing boilers

Even though it wasn't listed in your original post I would like to throw in a plug for the Buderus GB142 wall mounted.
we have a bunch installed and are all working great. Just got back from a training from the Buderus HQ in NH.
Well designed and very easy to install! Comes with primary loop also! little time saver there!

Rodney Summers · October 2006

install of laars mascot / baxi luna

i was wondering hot rod, after you install a new one of these boilers is it necessary to adjust the gas flow using a combustion analyzer to ensure efficient and full combustion? i installed a baxi luna ht330 and it seems to work fine out of the box (using natural gas, manual says recalibration is necessary for propane but doesn't say about gas), but i figured it might need tweaking.
also, for maintenance, should both the chamber be cleaned and a combustion analyzer be used yearly to optimize gas flow to ensure efficient operation?
thanks for any advice!
jet

S Ebels · October 2006

Hot Rod

Do I recall that you had a Vitodens lined up for your Wall of Flame? Ever get it hooked up?

Jim Farrell · October 2006

MIke T

Mike,

Where you from???

hr · October 2006

Still not connected, Steve

I have the rough in mounting plate hung and connected but the job is not yet ready for the jewel to be placed.

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Bob_87 · October 2006

Absolutly

Jet, You must set up the boiler with a combustion analyzer. The set up is from the factory in Italy. It will use a lot of fuel if not set up properly.

Empire_2 · October 2006

Buffalo, NY

A sub just outside Buffalo.....

Mike T.

Mitch_4 · October 2006

how about this?

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=41017&mc=12

ross moore · November 2006

any problems?

I know you like to keep things positive here, but from the sound if it every condensing boiler out there is great. It makes me wonder about the flip question: has anyone had issues with a particular condensing boiler? Have they been design flaws or company support type problems?

I'm not trying to start some kind of flame wars, but I like hearing the positives and the negatives.

Tom Yandow · November 2006

Condensing Boilers

I like the ideas, installation techniques, and the opinions of all that have replied to this thread. I have one major question from all of your threads and that is - What do your costumers think of the boiler plum exhaust? Mine all complain about it. How do I control it? Is going up through the roof an answer?

Thanks,

Steve Goldstein_2 · November 2006

What don't they like?

What's the nature of their complaint? The smell? Seeing the steam?

If it's the latter, that's surprising. It doesn't look any different than what comes out of a dryer vent....

Unknown · November 2006

roof

i would think through the roof would be the only solution, yes.

Rob_34 · November 2006

Art, What model boiler is that?

Nice piping.

Rob

RMA · November 2006

Utica

Has anyone tried the Utica UB95M-200?
What are the pros and cons compared to the rest?

Thanks
RMA

Mitch_4 · November 2006

see my link above about the Utica

Mitch

Sew- kul · November 2006

Condensing Boilers!

Who had the first one... Anyone seen any "Original" Hydro-pulse Boilers lately. How have they weathered, and are parts readily available.

brad_16 · November 2006

Aerco boilers

We have a KC series in a commercial building, it is 1 mill btu and nothing but trouble. We have left the cover off for the last 2 winters because it will run ok for a month and then lock out for no reason a couple days in a row then run ok for a month. I don't know how support for parts are by you, but here in Milwaukee no one handles the stuff locally. I just got the go ahead to install 2 Munchkin 399's and turn the Aerco into a back up, the building was built in 92.

Larry_4 · November 2006

condensing boilers

How does a boiler condenser. Fuel N. G.
It a product of your return water from your heating system and the % of CO that your boiler runs at.
The lower your CO the lower your return water temperture must be.
At 11.5 CO you will start condensing at 138 F return water

Before you select a boiler that says its a condensing boiler you must found out from each MFG when there boilers start to condense.
There are some boilers on the market that condense on water tempertures at 80 F or below.
This is not areal world heating system unless it is radiant.
Before you purchase a condensing boiler, determine if your heating system will work with it. 1st you need to perform some things before

Heat loss calcs (determine BTUs your house needs)
Connected output load: Do you have more baseboard than you need This is very good. You can reduce boiler water output temp if there is to much.
Change system Delta T to 30 F

If you ca keep your boiler return water temperture down)(below 138 F at 11.5 CO) during 80% of the winter ( your average winter temp in the grater boston area is around 35F Then a condensing boiler is a perfect fit.

Make sure your condensing boiler can handle the low water temp

As a Consumer you need to do your homework so you can question your contractors and find one you can enjoy

Luke Lefever_3 · November 2006

Re. HydroPulse

Changed a prepurge fan on one today. It was an A-100, I believe. There are some still around. We put in 2 new ones 2 years ago because they matched 2 others in the same mechanical room. We have half a dozen "dead" units in the basement, mostly leaker A-50s that we steal parts from occasionally.

Condensing boilers

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