Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

10 days with no heat and counting....Boilerpro

Mitch_6
Mitch_6 Member Posts: 549
by a color mention in one of the earlier posts I am already guessing the manufacturer as most likely are other pros's.

I can say for myself I have had good luck with the supplier of my boilers (I cannot say the same for water heaters or toilets) from the supply house through the reps to the manufacturer.

Mitch S.
«1

Comments

  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    Follow up to previous post

    Now that the boiler manufacturer is now answering the phone after closing in January for inventory (why not June instead!), they are so backlogged that parts aren't getting out vary quickly. The most recent call yielded that the part will probably be shipped next Wednesday, January 18. The part was ordered January 3... a minimum of 16 days with no heat for the customer midwinter (the boiler actually went down New Years day, so its 18 days including these days) You can be real sure that this customer will never use again or recommend this manufacturer's products.

    I just don't get it..... I suspect they will one day begin to wonder why sales are sagging. Customers tend to remember being cold and why.

    Fortunately, weather has been warm around here and there is a small furnace located in a wing which they are using to keep this majestic, restored stone home from freezing up while they wait.

    Boilerpro
  • Blackoakbob
    Blackoakbob Member Posts: 252
    Many years ago.....

    I worried about being in your situation. When I sold a new type of heating unit I used to buy an extra circuitboard, a control, vent motor or what ever I thought would be needed to get the thing going. At that time the nearest supplier was a hundred miles away!. I have managed to sell these items but in some cases it has taken years. The thought of tying up profit in inventory always made me think before I jumped into selling equipment that even the wholesaler didn't even support! Now I make a point to suggest that everyone should have two types of heating sources, like a gas fireplace, dual fuel heating system, etc. I always know that at 2 AM on a cold night I am on my own, the salesman, equipment rep and supply house are all home warm, snug in their beds dreaming of ways to spend their commission checks!Best Regards.
  • don_163
    don_163 Member Posts: 67
    Must have

    been one of them gold boilers.I just waited two week for a control on one.

    But I got lucky the control was not sending 120 to the circ everytime and the boiler would go to steaming,got lucky in caught it on my second trip.

    I just wire the circ to the inducer motor circuit and pray that it would stay running to the part came in and, it did.

    I too agree with Bob..that one of the advantage of force air
    there always more then one heatplant.
  • Robert O'Connor_12
    Robert O'Connor_12 Member Posts: 728
    Boilerpro

    What kind was it?

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    I'd rather not say

    as I don't like to "Flame". However, this situation points out a problem with several manufacturers.....closing for inventory mid heating season. Why don't they move their fiscal years' end to June, so they won't cause serious problems for a large number of their own customers?

    The boiler is very common newer model of a very common manufacturer, so getting parts should be no problem. I called two of my regular suppliers, with one carrying this product line since at least the 1950's and the other supplier being one of the largest in Chicago, and neither had the part. So here we all wait.

    The boiler is not one of my regular product lines (I dropped them some time ago), but I try to help folks out who can't get competant people to service the units after they have been installed. I have reinstalled several, and repaired many that were operating dangeruously. In fact it appears that the problem was caused by a previous serviceman, or much less likely, a factory defect.

    Boilerpro
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    There was a time........

    when a mechanic could stake a claim that they'd never have to leave a customer without heat. Then it would seem, Twisted Sister became the designer of heating components and drew their designs from Nightmares on Elm Street. As system components changed, we strived to keep up by stocking PC-boards, gas valves out the wazoo, ignitors that seemed to be intentionally different on each furnace or boiler - even within the same manufacturer's product line, and a long series of variations for electronic ignition systems. The pace of changes outpaced our ability to maintain an adequate inventories of esoteric parts. At one point, we invested in complete retro-fit kits to enable an overhaul in the dead of a winter's frigid night. The cost, however, was far greater than would be an overnight stay in a posh resort hotel, so that idea faded and we used the kits in day-time hours instead.

    We came to the reluctant realization that it was no longer possible to inventory everything needed to be in a position to continue saying "never left a customer without heat". Oh, we could if we'd decided to withdraw from the service side, and, concentrate on just one brand, and, stick to installs. But when you get the service bug running in your blood, the install-only side gets boring.

    The solution? We invested in a number of ceramic-cube and radiator-style electric heaters. Everyone gets a good night's sleep and we can order the parts the next day cause no one on the supplier side has been able to stock all the parts needed either! For A/C "emergencies", we keep a supply of used window-shakers on hand to get-em-by till we get-er-done!

    No excuse for the lack of service you've seen however. I'd be trying to get the ear of the owner(s) at that company. I'd bet they'd be kicking some butt if they knew their employees were dropping the ball that badly. If nothing else, I'd give the customer the contact info & let them chew on a few ears. For some odd reason, dissatisfied customers scare some manufacturers into action where a contractor's pleas for help fall on deaf ears. Seen that first-hand more than once. A manufacturer of A/C equip once gave me the excuse that they don't warrantee compressors in the first year - "That's the obligation of the installer", they said. We weren't the installer & the owners (both in their late 80's) were afraid of the installing contractor's employees who were, to put it mildly, rough characters with foul mouths. So, I put the HO on the phone. End result? A complete new condenser for free where just monents prior a new compressor would have made everyone happy - go figure! Lesson learned & that's been our policy ever since - no satisfaction ... sick the HO on em.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    That's why I'me posting here, in part

    I'm trying to get the ear of several manufacturers who shut down midwnter. There is no excuse for this, that I can see.
    Yes, I have considered letting loose the homeowner on them! That is rarely a pretty sight!
    I bet if we professionnals in the field do this regularly, maybe these manufacturers will wake up and realize that thier future is on the line.
    My mother was once on the phone with a vice president of Sears, and its amazing how quickly things get taken care of....they don't want to be bothered by such problems.

    Boilerpro
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    BP, I understand

    why you're not naming the manufacturer. But if I knew who they were, I'd stop buying their stuff until they got their act together. The one thing that gets a manufacturer's attention is a drop in sales.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,849
    how about BP posting that he will give manufacturer name

    in private emails to all PROS on this thread, so that some action might be taken if desired, and so other manufacturers reading thread will be made aware of this. For everyone's safety PROs should know what the product is while the company's public reputation is protected.
  • Robert O'Connor_12
    Robert O'Connor_12 Member Posts: 728
    Boilerpro

    If the support isn't there I'd tell EVERYONE. I find it hard to belive you can't get/find the parts more quickly. If you give me the numbers I'll try on my end and if I arrive at the same findings I'll tell the masses. Makes you just want to launch one through the manufacturers window.

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    Words of Wisdom and it shall be done! .......Boilerpro

  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,849
    Thanks BP, though as Mr. O'connor states, at some point, given

    a certain degree of non-response from manufacturer and widespread severity of the problem, the public would have to be informed. It might be good to send the manufacturers in question the link to this thread or an actual copy of the text so they know the level of concern.

    Who would have thought these companies would do inventory in mid-HEATING SEASON? Do airlines have crews hanging on their planes' wings doing engine maintenance in mid-flight? Is this a lost episode from Moe, Larry and Curly?

    David
  • Glenn Harrison_2
    Glenn Harrison_2 Member Posts: 845
    BP,

    While I respect your decision, I really feel you would be doing the Wall a favor by posting the manufacturer involved, as long as you stay with the facts of the story, which it sure sounds like you have.

    If it helps any, sometime later this week I will be putting a follow up post to a thread I started before Thanksgiving about a problem boiler. My problem will be getting resolved this week, but not due to a final resolution from the manufacturer, but by my wholesaler and the manufacturers rep coming up with the solution. I will tell the whole story, the final answer, the name of the manufacturer, and how they are not equiped to handle this new piece of equipment. I feel everybody who is putting these units in or is thinking of puting them in should know EVERYTHING about them. I know my boss is not going to put them in anymore, not due to the equipment, but due to the customer service involved from way up in the company, and the amount of time that has passed since this problem was brought to the manufacturers attention over seven weeks ago, without permanent resolution.
  • Paul Rohrs
    Paul Rohrs Member Posts: 357
    BP, just thinking outloud here...

    I think I know who the manufacturer is as well. Do you think your parts availability issue might be related to the fact that these manufacturers are concentrating on condensing/modulating technologies and supporting that first and foremost?

    It seems like everyone is jumping on that bandwagon and moving away from boilers and parts that are still needed on a daily basis.

    It is just a thought.

    Regards,

    PR

    Biggerstaffradiantsolutions.com

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    Yep, my thoughts exactly

    and, I am repeating myself, I do not think that only one manufacturer has this same practice.

    Boilerpro
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    I can understand that, however,

    > I think I know who the manufacturer is as well.

    > Do you think your parts availability issue might

    > be related to the fact that these manufacturers

    > are concentrating on condensing/modulating

    > technologies and supporting that first and

    > foremost?

    >

    > It seems like everyone is jumping

    > on that bandwagon and moving away from boilers

    > and parts that are still needed on a daily basis.

    > It is just a thought.

    >

    > Regards,

    >

    > PR

    > Biggerstaffradiantsolutions.com

    >

    > _A

    > HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

    > 353&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

    > Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

    > "Find A Professional"_/A_



  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    I can understand that, however,

    No parts can get out when the company is closed, so everyone suffers. The real problem seems to be closing up for a week or more midwinter. However, they may be providing parts to the high end boilers first. This,to some degree, makes sense because these owners have paid more for a higher end product and should get better service, all other things being equal. Over 2 weeks to get a part, however, is beyond reasonable, and when these customers do move high end, they will very likely, be looking at other brands.

    I also suspect that staff cuts also play a role. It seems we've been seeing this for several years in many areas with the rapid descent of product quality and service. Its now catching up with the manufacturers. Its what most of the U.S. market seem to want, more and more for less and less....few look at quality. Those few, however, tend to support hydronics much more strongly than those looking for a "DEAL". Some in the industry don't seem to recognize this, however.

    Boilerpro
  • mtfallsmikey
    mtfallsmikey Member Posts: 765
    Kinda makes me glad I'm not in the biz anymore...

    When I was coming up in the trades,some nozzles,filters,oil pumps,one or two gas valves,thermocouple,an RA-817,L4064,R-8184,L-8184,plus some other parts and a couple of motors,and I could make anything run,at least till the next day when I could make it to the supply house. I'm still trying to learn 21st century control schemes,and about this new equipment,just in case I ever decide to open my biz again.Even only being out of the service biz for 7 1/2 years has made me feel like Rip Van Winkle. All of you Wallies have been a big help. I wish all of you good luck,and stay on the mfr's.and wholesalers's butts. That's the only way they will listen
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    move to top

  • Larry Savino
    Larry Savino Member Posts: 63


    You know we just had a simular situation with a hydro air unit. coils on the unit froze up solid from the house losing power over the week end.

    Called the manufacturer no coils available for weeks. I called my local distributors and purchased entire new units pulled the coils out and installed them in my customers home when the replacement coils come in I will re install them in the hydro coils and just add them to my stock for a future sale.May sound like an exstreeme but some times you have to step up to the plate to serve your customers.

    Not trying to be boastfull but there has to be away you can get them heat again. If I was the consumer i would have had the system replaced allready
  • Blair Edgerton
    Blair Edgerton Member Posts: 4
    Lack of Mfg Support

    Sympathize with the lack of mfg support. I had a Weil McClain Ultra boiler go out last month the day before Xmas and I am still waiting for Weil McClain to return my calls. Makes you wonder who is running the show. Had to replace boiler with a new one and I demanded an RGA asap! Still in the works but the product support really lacks with this company. Things had best change soon.
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    Wooo Whooo the part has arrived!!!

    So the total time without heat is about at 19 days and the part can't go in until Saturday. The part was ordered January 3rd.

    The excellent folks at the Rockford,IL branch of Control'd Climate drove the part down to me (about an hour drive each way). Many thanks to them.

    And thanks to the customer for her patience, who has or will be reading this post.

    I sure do hope the manufacturers are listening...this low level of disservice is completely unacceptable...and quality contractors and good customers that help you make money are walking already. Unforeseen things do happen, but that does not appear to be the problem here.

    Its really unfortunate that the first to get hurt by drops in business volume due extremely poor service like this are the everyday working people... not the ones that decide to close down mid heating season or cut support staff.


    It a sad state of affairs....


    Boilerpro
  • Rookie
    Rookie Member Posts: 175
    Wholesalers

    The wholesaler that sold you the boiler should feel an obligation to keep inventory of repair parts for the product they sold or currently sell. I only (now) install boilers that the dealer will have parts available in stock, in fact some boilers I think the installer should stock parts for.
  • Bob W._3
    Bob W._3 Member Posts: 561


    Dave, if it had been my house there might have been a new furnace joining that auxiliary one by now. You indeed must have a very patient customer. You must be glad thats over.
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    Its over on Saturday, but thank good ness the wait is over!

  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    I think it's time

    to send a message to this manufacturer. Those of us who have e-mailed BP know who it is. We all need to stop using their gear, cold-turkey, period!

    All Steamed Up, Inc. has already done so. How about the rest of you?

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
    Feel Stupid here....need help

    After all these years on the wall, I can't figure it out. How can I get Boilerpro's email address?


    Cosmo Valavanis

    Dependable P.H.C. Inc.
  • Tony_23
    Tony_23 Member Posts: 1,033
    I've tried to e-mail you

    But it gets kicked back for "protocol error", whatever that is.

    Feel free to e-mail me the culprits name, I think you're being too easy on them as it is :)

    Tony
  • 18 days no heat

    Thank you Boilerpro for your stamina. We knew you were doing all you could. I feel badly that the service people use their time chasing down parts rather than being out on calls where your money is made. the company will hear from me...like your mom, I will head for the top ranks.

    looking forward to moving the mattress out of the family room!!! and glad it has been an unusually mild Jan. in northern IL.

    :)

  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    Hit Reply on this screen

    when the reply screen comes up, scroll UP and you will see the address next to his nickname. Do the obvious editing which is self-explanatory, and go for it.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • chapchap70_2
    chapchap70_2 Member Posts: 147
    getting a wanted e-mail address

    Clicking "reply" on the top of the post gets you the e-mail address of the person who posted. At least it does for me.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Devils advocate


    Was this a manufacturers decision or part of a union agreement?

    I went through this a few years ago and posted the same damn thing here on the wall. Not one of you seemed concerned then.

    I did some asking and found out that the union contract stipulated the shut down.

    I agree that it sucks, but wouldn't it be prudent to find out WHY they closed before you get the pitch-forks and torches?

    Reminds me of the Monty Python scene when they dress a woman as a witch and want to burn her. When the truth comes out that she was essentially framed a man in the crowd yells, "BURN HER ANYWAY!".

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Bill Jirik,
    Bill Jirik, Member Posts: 54


    If its the brand that I suspect (the one that Control D supply and Columbia Pipe sells) it was once the home town favorite manufactured just a few hours drive from BoilerPro, if they cant take care of thier local territory,
    how will they ever take care of the rest of the country, remember the ASHRAE show in chicago is your chance to ask the manufacturers some serious questions about what happened to product support and quality. I know that boiler company along with a chicago based pump manufacturer will be getting an earful from me.
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    it sure can be a B I double itch when you Need it yesterday thou

    Some things never change . in the military they go"Swimming suits? send them to Anartiica" :)

    "Parkas extra thick socks? The guys in the Mohave probably need them":)

    I say things different buh the last go around with boilers i wanted to sell i told the reps i would install them When the thermal relays showed up on the parts shelves. for once it came together.maybe straight words Are Heard by the right ears.really is a shame you were drug out on the job like that though....50 60 of us represent a few dollars rolling by maybe they no thinky you matter. let me encourage you ,we damm sure can make a difference.
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    They recently moved their factory

    and I don't think the new one is unionized.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    I know it's a PITA


    and a cold customer certainly concerns us more than it does the poor person answering the phones at company HQ.

    I know from your post who the mfg is now and it's that same company I complained about a couple years ago. Back then it was a union issue according to the mfg. Not sure what their excuse would be today.

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Mitch_6
    Mitch_6 Member Posts: 549
    Weil Mclain

    My local supply company supplies Weil Mclain along with some other boiler I do not like as much.

    I find the factory tech support hit or miss and that's if I can get through, they do not return messages left on there phone system, if you do not get through better just calling back.

    The local reps on the other hand are "EXILENT" I have there cell phones, they call me back and have gotten parts to me over night in difficult situations. I have also had a case that I could not install a boiler once taken out of the package and they took it back no questions asked.

    I have dealt with some of the other major brands in my area with poor results so I will stick with the people that stuck with me.

    Mitch S.
  • bovide_6
    bovide_6 Member Posts: 25
    please inform me

    of the manufacturer...
  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    Mark, once again has words of wisdom

    Maybe the executives don't need to see this as much as union reps. However, in this case a drop in volume and layoffs would hit head on those who could do something about it more directly. Such possibilities are the reason I still will not post the name here.

    And again, this manufacturer is not the only one I have had this type of problem, and I suspect others have had this type of problem with manufacturers. My whole post is chiefly directed to any manufacturer that has the practice of shutting down midwinter and then is so backlogged things take much too long to get out afterward.

    I hadn't thought about the show in Chicago That will be a good place for discussion about this issue to occur so everyone can benefit from changes....the manufacturers, the installers, specifying engineers, and the customers.

    We're talking a piece of the future of hydronics here and that means people's livlihoods and, in my opinion, the physical and financial health of our country. For those that spend the extra money to install hydronic systems they deserve much better support than this. And most here agree, that the improved efficiency and health good hydronics can provide over other alternative systems, pays back to our country as a whole with reduced trade deficits and lowered health care costs.

    I am seeing, and others here seem to agree, that the higher standards for quality in the hydronics industry have been dropping, like nearly every other industry, and that is a serious issue. Why would anyone in their right mind pay a whole lot more for a hydronic system, when a much cheaper alternative is available that is just as unreliable? Sure the standard of comfort is much different, but what good is comfort if that ...... heating system is always breaking down and parts cannot be gotten quickly for any repairs.

    I feel this situation is much more than a single customer being without heat far longer than necessary (and this is a big enough issue to warrant all this energy), but what direction is our hydronics industry going? If it continues to move in the direction of low grade, high defect rate and high maintenance products like its competitors, along with poor support, and not continue to build products that are more efficient, that have reliable life spans far longer than alternatives, we will have little to offer customers that ask why they should spend more for hydronics.

    Hold onto you pitchforks until all the dust settles, then take aim, if and only if, necessary.

    Boilerpro

    PS.....Mark.... sorry you were not heard previously, I suspect it was just one of those times that many of the most passionate here just were not around.
  • Ranger_2
    Ranger_2 Member Posts: 9
    Woah!

    > when a mechanic could stake a claim that they'd

    > never have to leave a customer without heat. Then

    > it would seem, Twisted Sister became the designer

    > of heating components and drew their designs from

    > Nightmares on Elm Street. As system components

    > changed, we strived to keep up by stocking

    > PC-boards, gas valves out the wazoo, ignitors

    > that seemed to be intentionally different on each

    > furnace or boiler - even within the same

    > manufacturer's product line, and a long series of

    > variations for electronic ignition systems. The

    > pace of changes outpaced our ability to maintain

    > an adequate inventories of esoteric parts. At one

    > point, we invested in complete retro-fit kits to

    > enable an overhaul in the dead of a winter's

    > frigid night. The cost, however, was far greater

    > than would be an overnight stay in a posh resort

    > hotel, so that idea faded and we used the kits in

    > day-time hours instead.

    >

    > We came to the

    > reluctant realization that it was no longer

    > possible to inventory everything needed to be in

    > a position to continue saying "never left a

    > customer without heat". Oh, we could if we'd

    > decided to withdraw from the service side, and,

    > concentrate on just one brand, and, stick to

    > installs. But when you get the service bug

    > running in your blood, the install-only side gets

    > boring.

    >

    > The solution? We invested in a number

    > of ceramic-cube and radiator-style electric

    > heaters. Everyone gets a good night's sleep and

    > we can order the parts the next day cause no one

    > on the supplier side has been able to stock all

    > the parts needed either! For A/C "emergencies",

    > we keep a supply of used window-shakers on hand

    > to get-em-by till we get-er-done!

    >

    > No excuse

    > for the lack of service you've seen however. I'd

    > be trying to get the ear of the owner(s) at that

    > company. I'd bet they'd be kicking some butt if

    > they knew their employees were dropping the ball

    > that badly. If nothing else, I'd give the

    > customer the contact info & let them chew on a

    > few ears. For some odd reason, dissatisfied

    > customers scare some manufacturers into action

    > where a contractor's pleas for help fall on deaf

    > ears. Seen that first-hand more than once. A

    > manufacturer of A/C equip once gave me the excuse

    > that they don't warrantee compressors in the

    > first year - "That's the obligation of the

    > installer", they said. We weren't the installer &

    > the owners (both in their late 80's) were afraid

    > of the installing contractor's employees who

    > were, to put it mildly, rough characters with

    > foul mouths. So, I put the HO on the phone. End

    > result? A complete new condenser for free where

    > just monents prior a new compressor would have

    > made everyone happy - go figure! Lesson learned &

    > that's been our policy ever since - no

    > satisfaction ... sick the HO on em.

    >

    > _A

    > HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

    > 98&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

    > Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

    > "Find A Professional"_/A_



    First,Dee Snider is an extremely bright guy,was briefly in our business as a helper back in the 70's,(I think with his uncle?)And if he stuck with it I think he would have been an excellent wallie!Second,I can really relate to boilerpro's pain having been being on both sides of the counter an had similar experiences.Third,I believe the reason manufactures/wholesalers have to close at the end of the year is because if you do not own your inventory (i.e.the bank does) the bank needs to know what you have as does the government (floor tax) at the end of the year (as it was explained to me).Most wholesalers in our area go thru this process and is a boon for us durring that period.
    (we cycle-count a small sample of inventory daily to keep things straight) so we're one of the few that never close for this reason.
This discussion has been closed.