Steam Heat Problems

Mad Dog_2

Glad you see the difficulty in it. We see new and old steam systems that were installed on-the-cheap without a single drain anywhere on the boiler...as Dan once said: "
why did they do it that way?????? Plugs are CHEAPER than valves." IF you post some pics we might be able to give some advice, but getting a steam pro over there would be a better Idea. Mad Dog

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William W. Aho

Steam Heat Dilemma

Hi My name is Bill and I'm a Master Plumber. I've worked on many steam heating systems and I have just encountered one that has me totally confused. I hope someone can HELP. My customer was having problems with their steam boiler (GAS) they had to add water twice daily. So I went on the hunt for a bad vent, or leak. Couldn't find one, but I added one pound of Hercules Boiler Solder anyway. The boiler is 15-20 years old and possibly 350,00o BTU's, (very big house). Well this is where the trouble started. after I added the stop leak, I think the boiler started acting up I'm not sure. The water is being forced down and out of the sight glass 30 seconds after the boiler fires, then the low water cutoff shuts down the boiler, and water seems to be being forced up into the radiator in their dining room. Also the gas valve is short cycling like crazy (40 seconds on, 1-1/2 minutes off) constantly, and thats when I calm the boiler down and make it possible to keep water in it. This boiler seems to be running backwards if that is possible. I opened the unions on the return and blocked the boiler and water seems to be returning okay. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I am totally perplexed. I installed a new low water cutoff, new guage glass, new pressuretrol, added KEK conditioner and the things still short cycling pushing water down and out of the guage glass, and sending water to the dining room radiator. Someone please help I am at wits end. If no one can reach me tonight please e-mail me tomorrow (Saturday) I have to go back tomorrow and I am out of answers. Again my e-mail address (billaho@msn.com)

Daniel_3

One pipe or two pipe steam? What is the pressure on the boiler set at?

Daniel_3

Sounds like a bad case of surging.

Mad Dog_2

Its dirty.......

Should have never added "boiler solder" or any of that crap...ie. Rust raider and the like. You now need to cook it out. TRy some MEX. Once you add the MEX...you WILL be there for the better part of the day getting it out. From one Master Plumber to another, if you need more help, call me at the office, Mad Dog

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William W. Aho

One pipe system. How would you flush/clean the system if it is dirty? (Finished Basement, with no walk out)

ttekushan_3

Ahhh, yes.

I've used a boiler stop leak on a steamer exactly ONCE. Never again. The brand I used instructed to pour it in, bring it up to pressure, then drain the boiler when cooled, and refill. The idea is that the sealant, once its found its way into the leaks, need not remain in the boiler water to contaminate it, I presume.

Honestly, you have to clean the boiler as you would a new steamer install to get the rest of that stuff out. Skimming the surface for awhile (hour or two), then a complete drain. I really like the surface blow off technique. Install a nipple and valve in the skim tapping, then pipe it to a suitable floor drain. Let it steam. It'll shut on low water a LOT at first, but after awhile the boiler will produce dry steam. Leave the valve there and plug it for future cleaning (like if any piping gets repaired, etc.).

Good news is, that if you don't use a chemical to clean it out, the sealing action is left intact.

And yes, you'll be there all day.

-Terry

P.S. You might find that the sealant has migrated into the system with all the wet steam. With this in mind, you will need a short follow up visit to surface blow off one more time. I've found the follow up to only takes about 15 to 20 minutes of steaming time.

Joe Gaetan

Stay away from Steam systems

Why are you messing around with a system you know very little about.I'll bet you charged the old people an arm and leg to screw up their system.For twenty years my mother
was paying money to so called "plumbers" like you,to fix her heating system.And do you know what the problem was Mr.Plumber, no vent on the main riser.No Vent,I figured out the problem when I read "Lost Art of Stean heating"
by Dan Holohan.And I am not even a plumber.And this plumber was licensed by NYC and he still has an office
in Astoria Queens.Give the people back their money and get a Steam Pro.

Mad Dog_2

Joe's Right and although a little presumptive

You could get badly burned messing with hot condensate, It really is for a Steam or atleast heating pro. I don't know what or if you even charged, but that aside, messing with The Steam is an art unto itself. Do you know Bill, Joe? Mad Dog

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Joe Gaetan

Only heating experts please!!

Perhaps I am about this person,because I remember what my parents went thru from 1962 to 2003.They and their tenant never got enough heat.All this plumber used to do was change a couple of radiator valves and increase the pressure.I finally got Dan's book and did some study, I found out that all these houses, built in the early thirties ,are the same layout.When I saw that my mother's system didn't have a main line vent,I went around asking the neighbors and most agreed with me there are no Vents.
My cousin across the street had the same problem,he just changed the boiler last year,and lucky for him the people that installed the boiler also installed a mail line vent.
My question is how they never installed main line vents,and if these plumbers get a NYC license, can I go to the proper department and do something about it.BTW my mothe upgraded her boiler eight years ago,and they used
copper headers,they left their company logo, so I know who they are.I just can't stand people taking advantage of old retired women. I will post some pictures in the future

Jamie Hall

We are all

experts in some field or other. Some of us are master plumbers (I am not). Some of us are top of the line steam men (like Mad Dog and Steamhead). Some of us are really good heating engineers. A very very very few of us are top notch at two or more fields. Dang few.

Some of us are able to figure out how to do a bunch of stuff, and are also able to figure out when we need help.

Don't knock another pro until you know what he is a professional in, and what he is professing.

Leo

Easy Joe

Easy Joe,

I can understand you are upset about your parents. At least Bill came here for help and for that you should commend him. Sounds like your parents plumber never went anywhere for help. Over the years a lot of professionals got more professional coming to this site. Shooting them down as a homeowner only adds fuel to the homeowner vs professional fire.

Leo

Steamhead (in transit)

Main line vents

were often left off steam systems in the old days, because the boilers in those houses were originally coal-fired. The coal fire burned all day (just like a woodstove if you've ever operated one) and the air only had to be vented once a day- so what if Junior's bedroom took an hour to get heat? Once the radiators were hot, they stayed hot all day. Some installers would omit main vents to lower their bids- sound familiar?

Nowadays we don't have that kind of warming-up time, but too many contractors think since these systems didn't have main vents originally, they don't need them now. THAT'S where the problem lies. Fortunately, it's so easy to add main vents that there's no excuse anymore for not doing so.

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Mad Dog!!!!!!!!

But Joseph..............................................

You seem to be "opening up" with all your guns here. Is Bill's company the one that screwed up your parent's system or are you just role playing? Lets keep it real and be fair, OK? Caveat emptor....whyy did they keep paying the guy when the results were not bearing fruit? Mad Dog

Joe Gaetan

NYC license

This brings up another point,if these contactors have plumbing and heating on their licenses why can't they do the right thing.They should have their license taken away.
As far as getting another "plumber"this guy had a near monopoly on the whole neighborhood.Just for your info
we all thought that this problem was part of the steam system.That is what he told us,after all he was the expert.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my posts.BTW this plumber is not longer there,and the last time they serviced
my mother's boiler he broke the pressure gauge.This gauge sits on top of the boiler under the cover,can't figure out ho to replace it.I'll get a real heating pro this time.

William Faust

That black pipe and fittings are really shiny

Did you paint it black or is it just the shot?

JohnNY

Location?

William, where is the job?

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