Pressuretrol question

JB_8

http://dticorp.net/catalog/honeywell-kgcm2-p-1137.html?osCsid=f73dff23c0acf983fa32347c8014739b Try this and save a buck.

Mike AK

old pressuretrol

Hey all:
I am a homeowner who has been working on my one-pipe steam system by putting in insulation and new vents. This has helped a lot--in fact, it has helped so much that the system now builds up pressure considerably more quickly, and this made me realize that the pressuretrol was not working. So I removed it, cleaned out the pig-tail (which was completely clogged), and cleaned out the pressuretrol (which was also completely clogged).

But the pressuretrol still doesn't turn off the boiler when the pressure builds up (the pressure gets high enough that it makes vents that otherwise work well spit and hiss, and creates small water leaks at the radiator fittings, usually after the boiler has run about 55-65 minutes and all the radiators are hot). Unfortunately, the pressure gauge on the front of the boiler does not work, and looks to me too complicated for me to fix, so I do not know for sure how high the pressure is when the problems start).

I've looked pretty carefully at the pressuretrol. Things I know for sure: 1) The electronics work: if I manually tip the mercury-filled tube when the boiler is running, the boiler shuts off. 2) The pressuretrol does not leak: If I put my thumb over the pipe opening to block air, no air leaks from the accordian style pressure gauge. And 3) The basic apparatus of the pressuretrol functions: If I blow with my full force of air into the pipe opening, on the lowest pressure setting, I can make the mercury-filled tube tip.

But even though I can get the tube to tip (and thus shut off the boiler), I'm concerned that the tube should tip easier than this (I've got a decent set of lungs, and would think I could produce more than .5 lb of pressure). Do the accordian style gauges get stiff and old with age (this pressuretrol is far from new)? Or is it possible the springs in the device are old and/ or maladjusted? Is there anything else I should check on the pressuretrol to see if it is working condition?

My overall question is this: will a new pressuretrol fix this problem, or do these symptoms suggest that something else is wrong with the system (too much leaking air in the system, etc...)?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Mike Augspurger

Paul_11

replace it with a vaporstat & replace the steam pressure gauge

Now that you have improved your steam system because of the changes you have made, you are ready to replace your pressuretrol with a vaporstat. Vaporstats read smaller amounts of steam, thus the name vapor stat. It is very important to have a working boiler control.

I don't know how big your home is, but you will most likely be able to heat your home with ounces, not pounds of steam and pressuretrols just can't measure that low.

You should also replace the pressure gauge as you need to see what pressure you have. If you don't feel comfortable doing that get someone who is competant from the professional contractor list on this website.

Once you have these items completed, then we can tell if you have other problems.

Good luck

Respectfully,

Paul B. Shay
pshay@arealgoodplumber.com
LMP 1307
LMFS 654B
212-505-1837
917-939-0593
OUR MISSION: TO PROVIDE WORLD CLASS PLUMBING, HEATING, AND SPRINKLER SERVICE TO EACH AND EVERY CLIENT WE SERVE, FAR EXCEEDING THEIR HIGHEST EXPECTATIONS!

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Vermonter

Pressuretrol

I've been working on my system and reading "The Lost Art of Steam Heating." When I moved into the house the gauge would get up to 5psi before the pressuretrol cut-out.

I replaced the pressuretrol with a vaporstat this weekend. I also added a Tee fitting and a 0-30 in.H2O pressure gauge next to the standard 0-30 psi pressure gauge. This is about 0-1psi.

I learned a few things. For the first 50 minutes the system ran on less pressure than you'd need to support a column of water 5 inches high. That's less than 3 ounces of pressure per square inch!

During those 50 minutes all the supply pipes got hot and all the radiators heated up. The 0-30 in.H2O gauge really didn't show a pressure rise until the vents started closing. The 0-30psi gauge didn't move at all. It was really proof that the system needed very *very* little pressure to heat the house.

I've also been replacing the supply valves at each radiator. Almost all of them leaked at the stem and at the spud. This by itself made everything work better because I wasn't losing pressure at the supply valve, just at the air vent where it's supposed to happen.

Hope this helps you troubleshoot a little.

Dan_29

pressuretrol problem

You have answered your own question in paragraph two of your post. You must get a pressure gauge that works.

I too questioned if my pressuretrol was working. The pressure gauge that came with my new boiler is the usual 0-30 psi gauge which is useless if you run .5 psi cut-in and 1.5 psi cut-out as I do. I bought a 0-5psi pressure gauge and it registers what I set the pressuretrol for about 50-60 minutes into a recovery cold boiler steam run.

I left the old 0-30 psi gauge on (I think it is a code requrement even though the pressure relief valve will blow at 15 psi)and added a few pieces of 1/4 inch black pipe nipples, tees, elbows and couplings to add the second gauge.

Even if you decide to change out the pressuretrol you will still need and accurate gauge to see it the pressuretrol works. I tried setting my additive pressurettrol to plus 3 and then turning it down to plus 1 but my system never built up enough steam cut out and confirm correct pressuretrol function. Only the 0-5 psi gauge confirmed proper pressuretrol function for me.

Dan

Larry in Elkins Park

Anyone know

Where to get a vaporstat and a low pressure guage? I just cehcked Pexsupply and could find neither?

Jamie Hall

sources

you may need to find a friendly heating pro to get you the vaporstat; plumbing and heating supply stores -- at least those that retail to knuckle-dragging homeowners and building supers -- seem reluctant to get them for you, I suppose on the theory that we don't know what we're doing...

Mike AK

A couple follow up Qs

Thanks, all. I had thought about getting a vapor stat, but have had a similar problem finding someone who will sell me one. I'll ask around some more, though. I should also probably replace at least some of the radiator fittings, although they would be very difficult to remove, I'm afraid.

My first question: Is it a homeowner-type job to replace or fix the pressure gauge? I took apart the front part of my gauge (as with most of my experiences with my system, I was amazed at the ingenuity and mechancial simplicity of the gauge), but then realized I'd have to take the front panel off my boiler to replace or unclog the gauge, and I was just hestitant to do that. I'm fairly competent and handy--is this a job an amateur can do safely? I'd love to have a, say, 0-5 psi gauge instead of just the 0-30 psi.

My second question is about how the pressuretrol should work. In a working household system, with a cut-out at, say, 2 psi, and the cut-in at .5 psi, how long (roughly of course) would the boiler "rest" after it cut-out? 1 minute? 5 minutes? 15 minutes? 1/2 hour? I don't really know, and would like to at least simulate this manually (by turning the boiler off after 60-70 minutes, and then turning it back on) until I can get the system working.

I greatly appreciate your help!

Charles_8

Does this help any?
http://www.partsguy.com/cgi-bin/PartsGuy/L608A1046.html
Better sit down before you get to the price though
-Charles

Dan_29

pressuretrol problem

I investigated vaporstats also. They are a good idea, but I am waiting for next heating season to install it. First, they cost $$$ or more versus a pressuretrol which costs about $$. Second, I need to vent my longer steam lines with some Gorton air eliminators or I will be short cycling forever.

Regarding your confidence in your abilities to do this repair, I think, that if you can remove and unclog a pigtail, you can install a new gauge. Nevertheless, if you feel uncomfortable installing a gauge (with the necessary piping) or a vaporstat, call a professional. I did my work during the balmy December we had Boston,just in case I screwed up and had to call a pro (my wife would make me sleep in the garage if I fouled up the boiler and interupted her majesties heat.).

Regarding the cut-out to cut-in time period, I assume that all boilers/pressuretrols must vary . After cutting out at 1.5 psi my boiler takes two minutes to cut-in at .5 psi. Since my thermostat is setback to 60 and recovers to 65 the pressuretrol has to repeatedly cut-out and cut-in for only 5-10 minutes at the end of a one hour heat recovery run as required by my digital thermostat.

I think a handy homeowner can do this, however, if you do not feel comfortable doing this (yourself) in peak heating season (when a pro may be up to his eyeballs in no heat calls) call a pro to do it before the next super cold snap.

Dan

PS. I have attached a picture of my modified gauge setup. Yes pros, I know I am a little messy with the pipe dope. I will clean it up soon. Yes, I know the 30 psi gauge registers 4 psi (I dropped the gauge on the cement floor and leave it there for code purposes not usefulness). The top 5 psi gauge is the useful one.

Charles_8

That's quite a difference... over $100! Sorry for the high-priced link... guess who I am NOT considering for my next part order...
-Charles

Vermonter

e-mail me

I had to buy a few to get one for my system. Send me an e-mail jteifert@yahoo.com.

Mike AK

the pics help a lot

Dan:

Thanks for the pictures. The gauge on my boiler seems to be a more integral part of the boiler: it is attached to the tank itself, and the face of the gauges sits flush with the body of the boiler. But I see no reason why I could not add a second gauge next to pressuretrol, as you have done here. This would simplify the job greatly--I'm really glad you sent the picture!

Now I need to figure out which gauge I want to get--but I think I can figure that one out. Thanks for the help.

Mike