New boiler system

John@Reliable_13

the installer who you trust. But make sure they also service what they install. Granted not all boilers are the same but the best boiler installed wrong will never be as good as ......... (you can see where this is going)

Michael Gawlik

New Boiler System Install

Hi all,

I am new to this discussion so if this topic has already been addressed, please forgive me.

I am completely renovating a three story duplex. this means new electrical, plumbing and heating.

My question is about hot water boilers.

I have had one contractor say that the munchkin high efficincy boiler is the best.

I have had another say that they only use Buderus boilers and they he has had problems with the munchkin boiler in the past.

My question is how do I make an informed decision when the experts cannot agree on a boiler?

Does anyone know where I can find information on boiler rankins and the like? I have been on google all afternoon and kept seeing this site, so now my plea goes to you.

Any help in figuring out which boiler to use would be greatly appreciated or if they have a favorite brand they would recommend and why.

Thank for reading and for the help.

Perry_3

Hmmm...

Note that I am a homeowner:

Getting everyone to agree on a recomended boiler....

Hmmmm.... I think that you will only get agreement from most on the high end.

The Viessmann Vitodens is in a class by itself - with many design features that the others just don't have. It is also appears to be really designed for durability. Of course it cost.... But, it is what I chose to install in my house.

The Munchkin, on the other hand seems to be designed as about the cheapest boiler they can build. As a result it has had more problems than the Vitodens - and some such as myself and others has questioned how long they will last; but, you get what you pay for.

There are a lot of boilers in the middle range, some on the lower end, some in the mid center, and some in the upper end.

The dealers on this forum tend to represent a consumer target range: You have dealers who sell lots of Munchkins, to dealears who sell almost exclusively Vitodens. So, you will tend to get recomendation based on where that dealer is participating in the market; and thus - little agreement between them on "a good boiler" for you.

So, what it really boils down to: What do you want to buy. Do you want the cheapest up front cost - regardless of problems down the road. Do you want to pay more (and perhaps much more) to get what should be a very reliable boiler down the road backed by a company that is considered long term rock solid; or do you want something in the middle.

It also pays to have a real expert installer. The best boiler will become trash and not work right if installed wrong. The worst boiler will be much better if installed right.

So, let us know where in the market you want to be for your boiler - and find a good installer.

Perry

Perry_3

Forgot to add: Aluminum boilers are long term suspect

Something I forgot to add.

Many companies are introducing "aluminum block" condensing boilers in the US... The latest thing - efficient - cheap.

I'd consider this with caution. The experience in Europe suggest that these boilers do not have a long life (and if you search you will find several long post on this - complete with references).

If you get an Aluminum block HX you have to worry about water chemistry in the heating loop - which will require periodic water chemistry testing and water treatment to maintain. How many homeowners are going to do that. Most warranties also exclude problems from improper water chemistry.

The condensate on the combustion side of the boiler slowly dissolves the aluminum. The design philosphy to overcome this has been to make them "thich enough" to withstand a normal level of such corrosion for "x" number of years... These HX's are literally designed to fail after that.

They are cheap to build; and low boiler cost gains market share. It also seems that some companies also are trying to get people to accept the concept that a boiler should only last 10 years, and be replacable like any other appliance... I find that a tough concept given that the cost of installation is often 2 to 3 times the cost of the boiler. Other appliances are installed at a cost of 1/10 or less than the product.

Now of course it is your choice on what to get in your boiler. Just be aware that there is no long term data supporting success of aluminum block boilers - and a lot of data in Europe (where they originated) to support that they don't last as long as other materials.

Perry

Singh_3

I have to disagree

with your views on aluminum block boilers.

And perhaps we could open up another thread on this subject alone.

A few opposing views:

-Aluminum block boilers are more expensive to make than SS. Casting is much more complexed and costly than stamping.
-They DO have a long term , successful track record in Europe.
-Water chemistry as in all systems is important, in a closed loop system.
aluminum can hold up just as good as others.