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New Lochinvar Knight Installation

AKTedAKTed Posts: 4Member
I had my boiler and hot water heater replaced about 6 weeks ago with a Lochinvar  Knight/Squire modcon and indirect hwh.  I selected a contractor to install the system from a neighboring community (approx 35 miles away) rather than one from my community for a variety of reasons.  I am very pleased with the overall installation.



The boiler (WBN106) worked fine for several days but then began to lock out due to a “Flue Temp Diff” error requiring manual reset.  This happens anytime the boiler runs at 100% for more than about 5 minutes as best I can tell.  This means I have to reset it  multiple times a day, basically whenever there is a call for hot water.  The boiler seems to work fine in space heating mode.  I assume this is because the demand is low enough (boiler never even approaches 100% right now for space heating) so that the problem doesn’t arise.



My boiler was one of the first Lochinvar’s with the new Smart Control installed locally and I understand they had some issues with the flue temperature sensor and/or control unit.   Within a few days of the problem my contractor informed me that Lochinvar was aware of the problem and was sending the necessary replacement parts.  In the next couple of days the contractor came by and replaced the parts, first the user interface control and then the flue temperature sensor.  Unfortunately this did not fix the problem.  I called my contractor, who got back to me that Lochinvar was aware that there were still problems  and would be sending up still another replacement part (I think the interface control) to fix it.



After about three weeks, I still had not heard anything from the contractor so I called them.  I was told that the part was in, but that they were busy on jobs in their local area, and basically they couldn’t make time to come to my location and put the part in.  They called back and said it would be another week before they could come by to put the part in.



My questions are first, have others had similar issues with the Lochinvar Knight?  Lochinvar seems to be responsive but I am concerned about future problems when my space heating is critical.  Secondly, although I like my contractor, I can’t help but feel that he should have made more of an effort to fix this in a timely manner.  Am I expecting too much?  Again I am concerned about his response when we are deep in the heating season and the boiler has a problem.



Thanks.



Ted
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Comments

  • SlimpickinsSlimpickins Posts: 308Member
    not expecting too much...

    No, you're not expecting to much to have to wait that long when they have the parts in hand. I'm sure you paid good money for the install and should expect good service. Hopefully you have at least a one year labor warranty. Out of curiosity, why did you go with this company rather than a local outfit?



    The Knight is a good boiler and should treat you right for many years with annual service.
    ·
  • AKTedAKTed Posts: 4Member
    Choosing a contractor

    I got two bids for the work, one from a large company in the community, one from the smaller outfit from a neighboring community.  I'm a mechanical engineer, had an energy audit done with an estimated heat load, and I had done my own heat load.  Still, the big firm, after asking the square footage of my home insisted that I needed a larger boiler than what I wanted him to bid.  His attitude was basically we don't want your input, we'll give you what you need.



    The smaller firm was willing to discuss my concerns, and agreed with my boiler sizing, and had some other good recommendations.  They regularly did work in my community.  I had looked at pictures of their work and it was obvious they took pride in what they did.  As I stated I am very pleased with the work.  I'm very pleased with the Knight, other than the nuisance lockouts!  Hopefully that will be resolved next week.  My wife, however, is less patient...



    I think that had I spoke with the owner he would have got someone out to replace the part sooner.  And hopefully he will respond quickly if we have a problem of a more urgent nature.



    Thanks.



    Ted
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    Knight Install.jpg
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  • Paul RohrsPaul Rohrs Posts: 79Member
    Resolution

    Ted,

    First off, what a great looking install!  It looks like you had a highly skilled contractor providing a "top-shelf" install.

    We have verified the issue and are waiting on the corrective parts from our OEM supplier.  In this instance you will be receiving a phone call from your rep agency in the area to assure that this model (by serial #) requires the new part.

    On behalf of everyone here at Lochinvar, we apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your patience in getting this resolved.  The Knight is an excellent product that will serve you well.

    I will follow up with you off line to make sure this is handled in a timely manner and that you are completely satisfied with the required fix.

    Regards,

    Paul Rohrs

    Product Manager

    Lochinvar Corporation
    ·
  • AKTedAKTed Posts: 4Member
    Thanks Paul

    Yes, the installation was top notch in my opinion.  I'm looking forward to the boiler operating without the frequent lockouts!  And with our first sub 40F night last night the space heating demand is starting to pick up.



    Thanks again.



    Ted
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  • DanielHDanielH Posts: 2Member
    Same lockout issue

    I've been having the exact same issue with my newly installed WBN 151 with Smart Control. I was getting lockouts about every hour for several days. Reading was 'flue temp diff'. Then I found this forum and read Ted's story, so called Lochinvar tech help and got a reply that yes indeed, there is a problem with the temp sensor. Just on a whim I took mine out and coated it with silicone caulk. Voila! Problem solved. It seems it's having a problem with condensation, probably inside the sensor itself, so I decided to insulate it, and it's been holding steady for days now. This is in Anchorage Alaska, and the temps have been getting down to around 30 at night, and my house is plenty warm and the hot water, thanks to the Squire, is pretty much endless. I hope this sheds some light on the problem.
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  • AKTedAKTed Posts: 4Member
    Flue Temp Diff blues

    Dan, sorry you're having the "flue temp diff" blues as well, but glad you got a fix of sorts.  My contractor did get out and did something (I wasn't there so I'm not sure what was replaced) and it is working fine now.  They had replaced the flue temp sensor and the little board that has the display on it previously.  Anyway hope you fix works until you get the "official" fix.



    Ted
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  • HuckmeatHuckmeat Posts: 1Member
    details on flue temperature diff lockout?

    I just got this lockout tonight - I've not had a chance to call my plumber, but can I get some details on what the issue is and what parts Lochnivar is supplying to fix it?  The boiler has been great, but we just finally hit the really cold temperatures around here, which we don't get often.
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  • DanielHDanielH Posts: 2Member
    Lochinvar flue temp problem

    Huck, the fix I did was not official, though it was working and should get you by until you can get the Lochinvar rep out to re-flash the Smart Control motherboard. What you do is remove the flue temp sensor, which sticks out of the flue up at the top, with a wire connected to it, and coat it with some silicone sealant, then screw it back in. Just coat the part that goes inside the flue. It's not much more than finger tight. The flue gas is moist and I suspect it is condensing inside the sensor, which is pretty much just a thermocouple.

    As soon as you can, get hold of Lochinvar and have them send somebody over to re-flash that board, because that will fix it for good. Let me know how it turns out. Dan
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  • ProblemProblem Posts: 1Member
    lock out

    I have owed this boiler(knight KBN 150) for about five years now with no problems. had it serviced once two years ago. My main problem recently (this week) is after the pre purge cycle and ignition 10 seconds later (jumping from 41% yo 100%) I get a sensor 1 open and lock out message.

    after a manual reset it worked ran the first couple of times. but now it goes through that cycle and just locks out. Any help would be appreciated.
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  • David SuttonDavid Sutton Posts: 1,062Member
    Very nice install

     Hi Paul !! sure was nice to read you stepping in and handling his concerns !   your a real pro !!
    ·
  • Lochinvar Knight Boiler Problems

     

    I had 2 lochinvar Knight Boilers installed in my 2 family home 2 years ago and 1 of the 2 units has been nothing but problems since I had it installed. Each year since it was installed it has gone out of service and I have had to have a technician come by to service it. When it first when into service the main PC board on the unit went down within 30 days, it also went down an additional 2 times that year until the technician was able to finish troubleshooting it. In the mean time my heat was working on and off until he finished it. The next year it came up with service code errors, followed by this year the main fan in the unit went out and I was forced to pay an additional $900 to have it fixed. The units cost approx $8,000 each installed as they were advertised as the latest and greatest.



    When compared to $4,000 each for the basic run of the mill boiler 80 percent efficient, I paid 2x as much for a product that keeps breaking. I thought these units being over 90 percent efficient would save me money but infact they have done nothing but cost me money since they got put in as they are service nightmares.



    Something else to consider is this company advertised a 12 year warranty. It is very limited and covers even less. Read the fine print!



    To make the situation worse I contacted Lochinvar to see if they could help me with this last repair and they refused. Flat out just no not even a discount on parts. I feel I will  never realize the savings on the heating costs because these units constantly break and will cost me more in service then I will save. In addition Lochivar does not stand behind their products and if your installer recommends one of these units ask for something else unless you want to keep his number on speed dial every-time it goes down as I do.
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  • Paul RohrsPaul Rohrs Posts: 79Member
    Dear ULC

    ...Dear Unhappy Lochinvar Client...



    I  don't blame you for feeling frustrated, anyone who has been through what you describe has certainly felt that way as well.



    First, I would like to apologize for the frustrating situation you are in, Second, I think I would rather call you by your first name rather than an impersonal "Frustrated Lochinvar Client".  



    I can assure you that Lochinvar is in the business of Professionally made heating products so I think you will see even by the thread you posted on, we take our professionalism very seriously.   Allow me to do the same.



    Call me at 615-889-8900 and at least you'll be closer to resolution. (Or you can email me at prohrs@lochinvar.com )  Now, before you contact me, be advised that I would like a model and serial number, the list of error or service codes, and a brief time line of when the units were installed and what the chronological list of problem(s) were or are.



    It's absolutely true that these units typically have a larger installation costs as well as an annual service cost that must be factored in.   I will say that when they are properly installed and "dialed in" for combustion, the fuel savings will naturally follow.



    As you have taken step 1 in posting this thread, let me help you with step 2 and extend this olive branch to commit to addressing your specific issues.



    I will look forward to talking with you to get you the resolution you can expect from Lochinvar. 



    Best,



    Paul Rohrs

    Product Manager

    Lochinvar, LLC
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  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    Unhappy...

    As one who trouble shoots this and other high efficiency boilers, I can tell you that 98% of problems in the field are installer related. Oh sure, any time you are making a bazillion widgets, you can expect SOME percentage of problems, but my experience with Lochinvar goes counter to yours.



    Kudos to Paul for stepping up to the podium in true Lochinvar fashion.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
    ·
  • HenryHenry Posts: 515Member ✭✭
    Problems

    New boilers are like cars. One can have one that has no service issues and then have one that has an issue. I have a furnace that has gone through 3 boards, two blowers and two air switch. The air switch problems was an OEM problem and the manufacturer switched suppliers. The board problem was analised once last summer by a factory tech. Then this winter when the second board had hickups, I had two factory techs spend 2 hours checking the system. It still let go. I had the best installer spend two hours checking the system, no faults were found. A week later he came to my house and spent another two hours to discover that the AC unit was sending a signal back to board causing it to do strange things like cooling in 0F temperature. Disconnected the AC unit, changed the board and everything is fine.

    We don't do residential hot air but we do install many, many Lochinvar Knight boilers. Since they came out, we have had the least amount of problem of ANY condensing boiler unit. We are forced by engineers to use other similar products that have many more problems. The Lochinvar support is great. We have had rarely a board that was bad or a sensor that was bad, very rarely! We have had to redo a few install by other contractors. Recently we had a Lochinvar Knight that was installed by another contractor that would need a new ignitor every three months. we were called in and discovered that the gas pressure was below minimum required. It was NOT a problem with the unit but a problem with the install and start-up! As I mentioned, it IS usualy an installer fault and not a fault with the unit!
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  • RE: Unhappy, Problems, and Dear ULC

    I have a message and email out to Paul this morning and I will update this message board on the progress. In response to the problems all being installer related I cannot say anything either way on that as I am the home owner and not the installer, however if these units are so difficult to install is there a certification course that one should take before they install these units? It sounds like it is not worth the effort if a basic unit can be installed for half the price and half of the issues.
    ·
  • follow up

    I just wanted to put an update regarding my situation on this message board. Lochinvar has stated it will not be providing any relief to myself in this situation. They feel the unit is too far out of warranty for it to be their problem at this point.

    I would like to caution consumers interested in this product on a few different things. 1 Lochinvar offers a 12 year limited warranty and this covers very little as far as the components of the unit are concerned, read this closely before you purchase the unit. Paul informed me this is the industry standard and Lochinvar has to offer a limited warranty like this to be competitive, however I feel as a consumer this can be misleading.

    2 Make sure your installer is familier with these units before he installs one. The guy who installed mine is out of the business and any chance you have as a consumer is dealing with the installer. Unfortunatly for me I am out about $900 on this repair after not even my 3rd season with these units, in addition these units have a higher maintenance/installcost vs a basic unit so weigh all options before you buy them. They are very efficent units, I feel I will ever recover my money at this point because within 10-20 years when I am looking for a new unit there will be something far more advanced than these units available.

    Nice units if they are working right and nothing breaks but it could not be offering much of a savings if you keep getting hit with repairs and you factor in the higher investment to get into units like this one.

    Overall my experience is stick with a basic unit that is easy to service it might only be 85% efficient but getting one of these latest and greatest units can be more headaches than it is worth.
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  • ZmanZman Posts: 2,333Member ✭✭✭
    unhappy

    I think it would be helpful to know more about your installation. Could you post a picture and give a little more history? Was a combustion analysis ever done? Maintenance?Is it piped correctly? The knight uses a horizontal coil type exchanger (same as the munchkin) They can be finicky if they are not installed correctly. No manufacture of boilers warranties electronics more than a year.



    Conventional boilers require less maintenance and can be installed by any creature with an opposing thumbs. Unless the are installed with a high level of skill, they generally short cycle and will never run at 80+ percent.. 70% is a fair comparison.

     
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
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  • photo

    If possible can someone put up a picture of what one of these units looks like properly installed so I can compare to my unit. It would also be helpful to me for future reference.



     I will take a picture next time I am at that house.
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  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2012
    Here ya go...

    OK, so its not "typical", but it incorporates all of the details required by the manufacturer...



    Primary secondary piping is a MUST with these boilers.



    As it pertains to appliance manufacturers, I have YET to install a boiler (pick a name/brand) that DIDN'T have issues. Its not a matter of IF, but more a matter of WHEN, and then it comes down to the response of the organization as a whole from the supplier to the rep thru to the manufacturer, and I have always found this organization to be excellent in their responses. I've only been practicing what I preach for 35 years. Sorry your experience goes counter to that.



    As for installing a lesser efficient appliance, and expecting to not have to spend money on maintenance, nothing could be further from the truth. Even the least efficient appliance manufacturer has requirements for annual inspection and service in their manuals in order to retain their warranty. Just because people ignore this requirement doesn't make it right. The time required to do a proper and thorough job on an atmospheric versus a sealed combustion appliance is about the same labor wise.



    I think that within the next few years, anything less than 90% efficient will be outlawed (already is in Europe) and we will have to install high efficiency. I've not installed anything less than 90% efficient in the last 15 years, and I have no regrets.



    ME
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    0B
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
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  • GordyGordy Posts: 3,757Member ✭✭✭✭
    Show Off!

    And you deserve to Mark!



    Gordy
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  • picture

    Mark,

    My piping looks nothing like this but then again they are for 700-850 SF apartments and they only have 1 zone. So there is much less piping, these units look like they are used in a larger capacity. 



    Unfortunately I have learned much more about boilers than I would have liked at this point do to this project. On my other house I went with a conventional boiler and knock on wood I have had much better luck. Regarding the efficiency I think it would be unfair to assume they are running below what they are designed to if they are installed by a licensed professional, I still think there is alot behind these units and they are not ment for your average home owner.
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  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    Give us what you've got.

    Take a few different angles so we can see on all sides of the appliance, and we'll tell you if anything is amiss.



    And yes, that system services a 12K square foot home, plus snowmelt and DHW.



    Thanks for the compliment Gordy. :-)



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
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  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Posts: 700Member ✭✭
    Hey Mark....

    could you post the thread where the pic came from.  I don't recall if you ever told us (not that you have to) how the job finished, besides the pic, and how it's performing.  I was also curious (i apologize for not remembering the terminology) how the vent piping is performing with the expansion sleeves.
    steve
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  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    Here you go Steve.

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/137770/The-FUN-has-begun



    The expansion joints have worked flawlessly. You can see them when they are in their partially collapsed state while the boilers are running. Then on a warm day, they are at their neutral point.



    The system has worked flawlessly. I did get a call from the HO. Seems his band of grand children were near the boilers, spinning knobs, and he thought possibly that they had turned one of them off because it was in the Standby condition. Turns out that nothing was wrong. He just didn't have enough load for the second boiler. His GC's have all been warned to keep their grubby paws off of grandpas boilers :-)



    Some peoples grand kids, I'm tellin' ya. ;-)



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
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  • GordyGordy Posts: 3,757Member ✭✭✭✭
    Some peoples kids

    Come now Mark if you were a little Kid ( not knowing how little they were), and you walked into the engine room of the Starship Enterprise........Well I guess if you had my Dad maybe not.





     Skull, and Cross bone signage needed.  A good spot for some made up signs with the deadmen Logo. Maybe every boiler room needs one ;-)



    Gordy
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  • IronmanIronman Posts: 2,201Member ✭✭✭
    Unhappy Lochinvar,

    You said: "Regarding the efficiency I think it would be unfair to assume they are running below what they are designed to if they are installed by a licensed professional"



    Let speak from experience that nothing could be farther from the truth. This board is replete with threads about boilers that are not operating efficiently, not heating properly, locking out constantly, having multiple parts changed and frustrated home owners like yourself who come here looking for answers because their "licensed professional" can't fix it. Inevitably, the boiler gets blamed as the culprit.



    If a boiler is not sized properly, piped properly, pumped properly, controlled properly, vented and adjusted properly, then it is going to run below its rated efficiency.



    I come across this regularly in the field also. One of the men who works for me part time was a rep and trainer for Buderus who has 40 years experience and you would not believe the horror stories he could tell about the installs done by "licensed professionals" that he's had to get involved with. His former boss is a friend who I'm in contact with usually a couple of times a week. He could write a large book on the problems he deals with from "licensed installers".



    The point I'm trying to make is simply this: most HVAC contractors no little to nothing about hydronics and usually won't admit it. And they seldom seek to obtain the training required or the equipment needed to do the job right. Then, when the issues arise with the job, they blame it on the appliance or the manufacturer.



    I'm not saying that is necessarily the case with your installer, but did you not state that he is no longer in business?



    Well, I'm glad you've come here. You'll get help if you'll provide the info requested. As you can tell from his pic, Mark is tops in the science of the fluids.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
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  • tim smithtim smith Posts: 2,146Member ✭✭✭
    Re: installation. velly nice Mark!

    Great looking wall Mark. Where does the condensate go, do you have an indirect drain right below boiler? What kind of system circulator is on there. Last, are those WHNs or WBNs.
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  • Re: Unhappy Lochinvar

    Please note I used another plumbing contractor to install my basic system and not the contractor I used on my Lochinvar system.

    On another note can someone tell me why after only 2-3 years the electronics on my blower fan would go bad from a bad install. I mentioned to Paul at Lochinvar I felt it may be related to the main board that went bad on my system but he said after 2+ years it is highly unlikely the 2 were related. I just cant see this causing a problem 2-3 years down the road and I would have to assume Lochinvar designed the blower to last longer than 3 years. The house is located in New England, It is only cold here from November until early March. There are climates out there that the unit could be in use more than double what mine is used.
    ·
  • Paul RohrsPaul Rohrs Posts: 79Member
    Control Board

    Bob,



    I want to add clarity to the issue of the main control board.   I did talk directly to the initial installer and was told that even before the unit (boiler) was commissioned and before Bob took possesion, the installer made a critical error and applied line voltage where it ought not to have been placed.   The main board was then fried but replaced prior to the start up and running in its present state of operation.



    I want to state that the board never went bad on its own volition and after it was replaced, you have a length of time of proper operation prior to your troubles beginning.



    Bob, care to confirm that?  I just want to ensure that Lochinvar is represented honestly and fairly.



    Best,



    Paul
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  • ZmanZman Posts: 2,333Member ✭✭✭
    Dead Subject

    If "unhappy" is "unwilling" to post a picture, I think this subject is dead. Installation has a huge impact on both efficiency and longevity. If a boilers electronics are designed for a certain number of cycles, A severely short cycling boiler will greatly reduce the life of the boiler. It is impossible to blame lochinvar without more info. I am working on 4 boilers now that are 5 years old and short cycle horribly.Many control parts are malfunctioning.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
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  • Boiler

    Paul the unit ran between 2-4 weeks before the boiler went out with a bad main. I rent the property out now so taking a picture will have to wait till the next time I am there.



    Regarding Paul's conversation with the installer I wasn't on the call when he spoke to the him but I am speaking from experiencing the problems. My main concern with this unit is what if nobody was around to notice this happened say people went on vacation and the house froze because nobody addressed it. I read on another message board another client pointing this out when his unit went down on a unrelated issue. Like I said earlier my issue with this blower was not the first time my unit went down.



    Also just so I know besides Paul who else communicating with me on this message board is a Lochinvar employee?
    ·
  • Picture

    Paul



    I didn't get an answer to my question above. How can you determine from the picture a cause for the blower motor electronics going bad. The othe pictures I see are exterior only and do not show any wiring? So if it is something missing or plumbing related what should I look for next time I am there? Paul please respond with an answer to critical question!
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  • BackitupBackitup Posts: 1Member
    worthless warranty -Lochinvar

    Seems to me the 12 year warranty Lochinvar  advertises is worthless. Looks like Lochinvar is grasping for straws trying not to pay for something they should have and playing the blame game and trying to trap the customer by sending pictures, of course we know what they will say, they certainly are not going to say it was installed correctly. Lochinvar not warranting one of their components because they did not

    manufacture it is like Cadillac not warranting the alternator on a 2

    year old Caddy with 15,000 miles. There is not a boiler made that  should require so much extra expertise to install, unfortunately Lochinvar did not step up to the plate and do the right thing and they are now exposing their faults and weaknesses. Seems like if they would have simply helped out the consumer they could have avoided a lot of bad blog ink and saved themselves more than a few sales.  
    ·
  • Steve WhitbeckSteve Whitbeck Posts: 669Member
    blower problems

    Blower problems and other electronic problems are usually caused by exhaust gas reversion.

    That is why we want to see your install - including how your boiler is vented and how the vent pipes terminate.

    Backitup  ----  The boilers are NOT that hard to install as long as YOU can read and look at pictures.

    The problem is that most of the people installing YOUR boilers didn't do either.

    I have three boilers right now that need repiping, Two have the water running the wrong way past the closely spaced tee's ( primary/secondary piping). So that the boiler sucks up it's own hot water.

    The other boiler has the water running backwards through the boiler.

    You still need some intelligence to install any high efficient modulating boiler.
    ·
  • PeterNHPeterNH Posts: 88Member
    edited February 2012
    Clear as a bell

    "quote: Parts are warranted for 1 year."



    As far as many warranty's go, this one is quite easy to read and understand.



    Burnham, ECR, etc are all one year parts.

    Agree, if the stuff does or doesn't last more than few years... it's the space where reputations are made or broken. 

    .Peter



    http://lochinvar.com/_linefiles/WAR7007%20-%20Rev%20A%20(KNIGHT).pdf





    WHAT IS TH
    ·
  • ChrisChris Posts: 2,869Member
    Warranties

    Just wanted to clarify that warranties are different. Burnham Alpine comes with a 5yr parts and labor warranty out of the box and you can purchase additional parts and labor warranty upto 10yrs. There are a few others who also offer the same.



    Consumers and some contractors really need to read warranties. Defective, means from normal wear not from abused wear. As others have stated, wrongly sized and installed products tend to have component failure most often. Why is the mfg always on the hook where is contractor/installer responsibilty?



    Look at car warranties, yes they give years but also mileage caps. Why, to cover abuse from none normal wear and tear. If a blower failed because the appliance short cycled itself to death and in 3 years actually cycled itself as if it was 6yrs old is it defective? Would you consider it normal wear?
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
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  • JoeSmoeJoeSmoe Posts: 1Member
    Bob's Consumer Problem with Lochinvar

    Bob,

    I Googled the keywords: Lochinvar; Consumer Complaints/Problems and noted a complaint lodged with Ripoff Report( report number 5872180)- the guy had a complaint very similar to yours.  It seems the company's response was very similar too.  It's not their fault... The problem lies with the installer ... yaddy yaddy yada .  As a former landlord and present home owner I concur with the advice that one should go with a less expensive model.  At least if the thing goes kapoot, you don't have as much skin in the game.  I hear that the UTICA 15-B is half the price and a good value.  However, if you still want to pursue your claim with Lockinvar, and I think you should because I really do think you have a claim, you should do all of the following:

    1. lodge a complaint with the Attorneys General office and ask that they be investigated for fraud.

    2. File a Consumer Demand Letter against them(Chapters 93A and 176 D - Mass Gen. Laws).  They will be subject to double or even triple damages for giving you the run-around.  You don't even need a lawyer - you can handle it pro se

    3. If you rent to minorities, the Reverent Jessie Jackson at the Rainbow Push, Black Enterprise.Com would love to hear from you.

    4. Lochinvar may be subject to violating federal fair housing law so you could make a complaint with them and ask for a full investigation.

    5. Send them a photo, in the complaint mentioned above, the Lochinvar rep twice visited the site and was unable to discern the problem.  How their so-called experts could possible tell anything from a photo is beyond the scope of my imagination.

    6. You have a right to have all your questions answered.  If I were you, I would make a list and not stop asking until you gained some sort of satisfaction that you were not getting a runaround.

    7. Call for a boycott of all Lochinvar products - do it for the poor sucker who spends the big bucks and gets nothing for his money.

    8. Get a group of like-minded consumer activists and picket the closest distributor.  The 99 Percenters would be happy to hep out your good cause.  There are plenty of forums on the internet where you can call for help.  Organize a Flash Party at their next convention.

    Power to the People!!!
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  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 4,930Member ✭✭✭
    Isn't the internet a wonderful place....

    A place where people like JoeSmoe can come and spout 99% garbage, and not have enough cajones to reveal their real identity...



    Trust me Joe, Lochinvars legal team has a lot more fire power than you do, which is probably why you are hiding behind a pseudo name.



    Show me a manufacturer who HASN'T been the subject of an investigation, and I will show you someone who is either out of business, or who has never been in business.



    Bottom line, you can;t make ALL the people happy all of the time, and manufacturers MUST draw the line someplace, otherwise they are subject to the whims of people like JoeSmoe trashing them on a regular basis because they feel they've been "wronged".



    Life is not fair. Get over it and grow some cajones. OR go stand in line waiting for your undeserved "fair shake". I worked too hard for mine to "give" it to you. You are not deserving.



    I remain,



    Mark Eatherton
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
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  • This helped make my decision

    I am in the market for a new boiler. A Burnham was recommended but I also heard about this company to compare. Based on this recent issue, I am going for the Burnham. Good luck getting a resolution!
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  • ChrisChris Posts: 2,869Member
    Well Said

    ME... Gotta love those that can't get their way, their tears form an ocean of fun for those of us that like to swim.



    I have just on question for the original poster. Did your installer calculate a heat loss to properly size that boiler?
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
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