Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
propane vs natural gas
Bob W._3
Member Posts: 561
Kniggit, see my Reply to your earlier post above. Your gas is about $1.00 per therm or CCF, not $10.
0
Comments
-
propane vs natural gas
if a home owner had a choice between propane or natural gas,
which is the most cost effective? the house is about 3500 square feet. the natural gas was just recently ran in there area. any thoughts would help. thanks0 -
I would have to say natural gas- it burns cleaner like propane but has a higher BTU value.0 -
I don't think it really matters... they're both expensive.
NG is convenient, because you can't run out, but your at the mercy of the monopoly that you buy it from.
Whereas propane can me bought from whomever you desire.
On the other hand, if it's a new system, oil would be a better choice... you get more btu's per gallon of oil and it's safer(you know those audible ignitions that gas sometimes has, that leaves those nice cellar holes).0 -
NG has a higher btu content than propane?
Not by the cubic foot.
The better deal is the one that delivers the heat at the least cost safely. In most cases that's oil. Then NG. And then propane. But that's around here in upstate NY. Prices vary all over the place.0 -
What ???
Higher BTU value ? Per what measure ? NG is sold by the "therm" which is 100,000 BTU's. LP is sold by the gallon which is 92,000 BTU's. Cost per unit, converted to cost per BTU will give you the answer.
BTW, NG per cu. ft is 1000 btu (avg). LP is 2250 btu/ cu.ft.0 -
i am thinking of getting a new dryer i heat with oil but would propane be cheaper to operate then electric my electric rate is .078 per KWH
thank you0 -
coal and wood rule
coal is a good fuel. if you use wood it is also good. because both coal and wood are easy to get anywhere from discount wholesalers. gas or propane are at mercy to the large companies.0 -
Historically natural gas is significantly less expensive than propane. Probably not good to judge based on the wacko energy pricing this year that [seems] to have much more to do with wild speculation and even wilder profits than normal market forces.
Most gas appliances can easily and inexpensively be converted between LP and natural gas.
Relative cost in an area newly served by natural gas will likely drop as the cost of the initial infrastructure is amortized and overcome.0 -
Rooster...
I've had both and find that the gas dryer is far superior than the electric in drying ability. Gas is what I have now.
If you really want to save, dry your clothes on a line outside, subject to weather and season conditions of coarse. I think they even smell better.0 -
i will never go that far to save ;-) i just figured since i will be buying a new one i figured i may as get one that will be cheaper to operate
thank you0 -
Rooster
What you will find with propane is that the cost per gallon goes down as the gallons per year go up as the tank and regulator are owned and maintained by the propane co. so the more propane used the less it costs per gallon to keep the tank and regulator on your site. That being said you will be much happier with a propane dryer and I would prefer to cook with gas also when possible.
Bruce0 -
How much does propane cost in your area?
0 -
LP
LP is made out of the same stuff fuel oil is, so the prices roughly follow the oil prices. Nat. is through the roof right now.0 -
Our NG is high, but still lower than propane or oil. Here in the upper Midwest gas has always been the cheapest fossil fuel.0 -
Ooops!!! What I meant was that typically, you get more BTU's for your money since gas is "typically" cheaper than propane-all depends on prices in your area.0 -
Pricing
I always have seen the opposite here. Gas is cheap going in, then after they hook up a bunch of people, they raise it considerably.0 -
Hi Roosterboy,
If you are as crazy as I am, you could dry your clothes with oil. I have a gas dryer that I removed the burner from and replaced it with a hot water coil connected to my boiler as an additional zone. Dries a little quicker than it did with propane and for a lot less money.
Where I live, Natural gas is cheaper than Propane per BTU but oil is cheaper than both.
Ron0 -
Ease of life...
Comfort comes in many forms,somewhat like our sense's . for example i am a walking CO detector.i n some ways the peace of mind of owning your own tank regulator and system, providing you have lp companies that will deliver to your tank,when you basically purchase the fuel for other business you may own makes all the sense in the world.
living in a neighbourhood with gas 'laid on' then having it already right there is a benefit . Having no gas yet and piping for it yet going l.p. is a way to build now convert later.(remember to size for it)
buying something on 'price point ' sometine
leads to defugalties when..... if you have ever experienced why the price of this or that is 'down'being handed a box of something you didn't purchase to find this that and the other not there you will be reading this from a slightly different perspective. being the only house on your block with nat gas or propane or oil while unique may not play well with the service of the equipment.
An oil system and propane system have some things in common. individuality and degree of freedom. Requirements for proper installation and maintenance come with any fuel source so there is 'nt much in the way of variance good or bad there.
these are some considerations for you not necessasarily an answer.may it help in your decision.0 -
Code limitations
Propane is a very dangerous fuel since it can collect in low areas and easily be ignited. Natural gas is lighter than air and self ventilates more easily. Many codes no longer permit propane equipment to be installed below grade level unless a special gas drainage system is installed. I expect that this change will continue to grow, and I do believe it is a good idea.
As for oil, around here, (northern Illinois) it is still more expensive than gas. And, don't believe that natural gas and propane are the only fuels that can cause explosions. Talk to any good rural firefighter in my area and they all know to run if they walk into a home or see a fog coming out of a chimney (vaporized, but not yet ignited oil). As with any equipment, lack of maintenanace, or lack of competent maintenance, usually causes the problems.
Boilerpro0 -
Code limitations
Propane is a very dangerous fuel since it can collect in low areas and easily be ignited. Natural gas is lighter than air and self ventilates more easily. Many codes no longer permit propane equipment to be installed below grade level unless a special gas drainage system is installed. I expect that this change will continue to grow, and I do believe it is a good idea.
As for oil, around here, (northern Illinois) it is still more expensive than gas. And, don't believe that natural gas and propane are the only fuels that can cause explosions. Talk to any good rural firefighter in my area and they all know to run if they walk into a home or see a fog coming out of a chimney (vaporized, but not yet ignited oil). As with any equipment, lack of maintenanace, or lack of competent maintenance, usually causes the problems.
Boilerpro0 -
Boilerpro,
You make a valid point but rather one sided as I live in a semi rual area and the use of LP vs Nat is about 50/50, yet I see more homes blown off theie foundation by Nat Gas than LP. Why? because Nat was usually piped into the basement from the street thereby allowing any streetside leak to find its way into a basement, LP however has to come above ground before it can enter a home thereby any leaks outside the home stay there. We could go all day tit for tat over which is more dangerous. What makes one gas safer in an outdoor environment doesn't nesassarily hold true in an enclosed environment. But just like combustion/CO problems the answer to gas leak problems is called testing, testing, and more testing. However none of us can stop stupid.
Bruce0 -
If installed and maintained properly, either is safe, comfortable and reliable. It really comes down to what fuel is available and cheapest in $/btu in your area. In my area, oil is the best for $/btu.0 -
Propane Drains
Some jurisdictions in our locale used to require a 3" untrapped graded drain to daylight to allow heavier-than-air gas (propane) to escape from basements. It was determined some time later that the draft coming UP the drain was too great to allow the gas to escape. Prior to this; electronic gas sniffer-solenoid valve devices were used in some applications to shut off gas outside when any accumulation was sensed. These are still allowed (required) by some jurisdictions; where the drain has been deleted. Our State (Colo.) simply won't approve any installation in a pit or basement without a walkout door at grade level; and that is a good rule. Every county, municipality, state has a different interpretation; but good sense dictates that Propane appliances should not be installed in a pit or basement where gas could accumulate.0 -
costs versus safety
Anybody with any experience in HVAC, firefighting/ EMS other a dozen other careers can attest to the consequences of the triad that accounts for probably 95% of all heating equipment related problems: the triad of improper installation, improper operation and lack of proper qualified maintenance. If it weren't for this triad, guys like Ed Carey and myself would be out of a job. Actually, I'm switching to teaching anyway but the point is, the problems come from people making poor choices.
When looking at the cost of heating, a holistic approach should be taken. Unfortunately, what is a good match of house, equipment, and homeowner goes out the window when the house is sold. Therefore, any system that relies heavily on the skill and diligence of the operator is much more risky. It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly ordinary intelligent people go out of their way to kill themselves when it comes to heat. There must be some primal instinct like Tim the Toolman to blow ourselves up in the course of trying to "improve" things.
As stated above, the cost of operation in part is based on the cost of fuel, which can be compared on a BTU input basis for a start. However, I've seen hundreds of "high efficiency" furnaces whose duct work was so leaky, they would be better off with an 80% unit. The combustion efficiency is only part of the equation. I know of one new development built to Energy Star stds. where water runs out of the doorknobs there is so much condensation inside!
You must deliver comfort to the occupants and that may mean something totally different that that crummy AFUE rating. Look at the whole picture: climatic zone, local weather patterns, house siting such as passive solar, house construction, anticipated use of the house, etc., etc.
I think that takes a qualified professional working locally to assist you with choices.0 -
Fuel cost comparision table
A.O. Smith has a fuel cost compaison table for various fuels including electricity, oil, gas, propane, wood and coal at
www.hotwater.com/lit/misc/c0270.pdf,
although it is for hot water applications it does give a quick picture of what fuel costs equivalents are.0 -
safety factor
Natural gas wins this one.
NG is lighter than air and will rise if it leaks, usually up the chimney.
LP is heavier than air and pools around your basement or wherever waiting for a spark.
NG you can't shop around
LP you can
LP is manufactured and comes in a tank and usually has a constant BTU output
NG may have opther gases introduced in the line to keep pressure up during high peak times which may drop the BTU rating.
The choice is yours
0 -
IF LP is less than.........
A buck sixty. That is the $ per BTU equivalent according to my LP supplier's slide rule. Nat on the other hand would have to be 18 per thousand to equal .078 /kW0 -
LP prices change
based on the time of year. At least in my area. Currently around $1.60, but it usually, always has, falls about 20 -40 cents come spring and summer. I pre buy in the fall, typically August, when it is at it low point.
As with you NG is getting piped to my area. From my experience they sign up up at one price then thing change. Also some monthly fees.
I bought my own LP tank and can shop and buy when the market is low.
hot rod
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
In my market Propane is the Cheaper then Natural gas by a factor of almost 5:1 Natural gas costs roughly $10 a therm, where as propane is sold by the gallon and does not quite have 1 therm per gallon, and only costs a mear 1.69 at the winter rate, not a pre purchase. Electric is going to go up to match Natural and is no longer a cheap alternative. Fuel oil is the best alternative here, except it is not available in my city, the petrolium destributor delivers #2 offroad diesel for that purpose, and is only $2.13 a gallon and is almost 1 1/2 therms per gallon, so in order of cost in the greater kansas city area is
the prices below are per 1,000,000 BTU's at the stated Efficiency
Fuel oil $18.96 at 80%eff
Propane $20.45 at 90%eff
Natural $106.56 at 90%eff
0 -
NG price hike
my gas went up 43% from a month ago. Wood and coal starting big comeback I bet.0 -
I find it hard to believe that NG costs $10.00 a therm (or 100CCF). Sure you don't have a decimal shifted? In most of the Midwest NG has traditionally been less than $1.00/therm until this year.0 -
NG
Where are you located? Our NG went down from last month. Now it is at $1.08 per therm delivered. Milwaukee.0 -
Colorado
SW of denver in the foothills. A small gas company sprung up after deregulation; buys the gas from the big monopoly. I thought we were going to escape but I guess not.0 -
Want to see my gas Bill? $440 for 1500 sq' heated with radiant staple up is a bit steep if ya ask me, natural has not droped below $7 a them in a year. go to this web adress if you have excell, its got the cost per them for the last 12 months plus this month
http://www.kansasgasservice.com/documents/tariff_downloads/current_cog.xls0 -
Greater Kansas City area its roughly $10 per therm check the website I posted earlier.0 -
I don't believe a therm is the same as MCF. Your cost is measured in MCF, which I presume is a thousand cubic feet. Most gas is measured in CCF's which is a hundred cubic feet, or therms, which is almost the same. Your gas is measured in units 10 times that. Therefore, it is not $10/therm. Propane is probably 2x that, not 1/5 that.0 -
Ahh, thank you for pointing that out I had to go double check the Definitions, they sure don't teach Roman Numerals much in school any more. you cleard that up big time.
Thanks0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 86.8K THE MAIN WALL
- 3.1K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 56 Biomass
- 425 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 109 Chimneys & Flues
- 2K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.6K Gas Heating
- 105 Geothermal
- 160 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.6K Oil Heating
- 69 Pipe Deterioration
- 965 Plumbing
- 6.3K Radiant Heating
- 385 Solar
- 15.3K Strictly Steam
- 3.4K Thermostats and Controls
- 54 Water Quality
- 44 Industry Classes
- 47 Job Opportunities
- 18 Recall Announcements