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Burham Steam Boiler with hot water for baseboard

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Kniggit
Kniggit Member Posts: 123
in THE MAIN WALL
well apparently you threw away the directions before that pump was installed. Most cartridge circulators put the motor horizontaly, not how yours is pictured, next time you DIY read the directions. Also, because you can't find the directions don't put the control box on the bottom of the pump, it must be to the side of or above the pump motor. I understand trying to save money with DIY but don't DIY if ya can't read directions.

Comments

  • Brian_43
    Brian_43 Member Posts: 4
    Steam Heat with HW baseboard attachment

    I recently moved into a home that has a Burnham 4B gas boiler. The basement has a pipe running from the boiler with a circulator pump to direct the hot water thru the baseboard in the finished portion of the basement.
    It heats REALLY well and VERY fast. However...when the boiler is fired to hea the rest of the house (and after 10 minutes or so), the circulator pump begins to squeal. It smells as though the pump motor is overheating. I've just replaced it as the old one was dead...probably due to this issue. (The new pump is a B&G NRF-22) This ONLY happens when the boiler is firing. I've checked the site glass for the water and the level during the time of trouble and it is fine (about 1/2 way up). Is it possible the water gets too hot for the pump? The only other thing I can think of is that the water is somehow not flowing properly when boiler is fired.

    Any ideas or help would be much appreciated. I've attached pics of the boiler and the circ. pump connection (it's about 4 feet from the boiler) for a better idea of what things look like. (The yellow arrows show the outflow of water from the boiler running along the floor and up to the pump.)

    Thanks,
    Brian
  • Brian_43
    Brian_43 Member Posts: 4
    Steam Heat with HW baseboard attachment

    I recently moved into a home that has a Burnham 4B gas boiler. The basement has a pipe running from the boiler with a circulator pump to direct the hot water thru the baseboard in the finished portion of the basement.
    It heats REALLY well and VERY fast. However...when the boiler is fired to hea the rest of the house (and after 10 minutes or so), the circulator pump begins to squeal. It smells as though the pump motor is overheating. I've just replaced it as the old one was dead...probably due to this issue. (The new pump is a B&G NRF-22) This ONLY happens when the boiler is firing. I've checked the site glass for the water and the level during the time of trouble and it is fine (about 1/2 way up). Is it possible the water gets too hot for the pump? The only other thing I can think of is that the water is somehow not flowing properly when boiler is fired.

    Any ideas or help would be much appreciated. I've attached pics of the boiler and the circ. pump connection (it's about 4 feet from the boiler) for a better idea of what things look like. (The yellow arrows show the outflow of water from the boiler running along the floor and up to the pump.)

    Thanks,
    Brian
  • Brian_43
    Brian_43 Member Posts: 4
    Steam Heat with HW baseboard attachment

    I recently moved into a home that has a Burnham 4B gas boiler. The basement has a pipe running from the boiler with a circulator pump to direct the hot water thru the baseboard in the finished portion of the basement.
    It heats REALLY well and VERY fast. However...when the boiler is fired to hea the rest of the house (and after 10 minutes or so), the circulator pump begins to squeal. It smells as though the pump motor is overheating. I've just replaced it as the old one was dead...probably due to this issue. (The new pump is a B&G NRF-22) This ONLY happens when the boiler is firing. I've checked the site glass for the water and the level during the time of trouble and it is fine (about 1/2 way up). Is it possible the water gets too hot for the pump? The only other thing I can think of is that the water is somehow not flowing properly when boiler is fired.

    Any ideas or help would be much appreciated. I've attached pics of the boiler and the circ. pump connection (it's about 4 feet from the boiler) for a better idea of what things look like. (The yellow arrows show the outflow of water from the boiler running along the floor and up to the pump.)

    Thanks,
    Brian
  • Brian_43
    Brian_43 Member Posts: 4
    Steam Heat with HW baseboard attachment

    I recently moved into a home that has a Burnham 4B gas boiler. The basement has a pipe running from the boiler with a circulator pump to direct the hot water thru the baseboard in the finished portion of the basement.
    It heats REALLY well and VERY fast. However...when the boiler is fired to heat the rest of the house (and after 10 minutes or so), the circulator pump begins to squeal. It smells as though the pump motor is overheating. I've just replaced it as the old one was dead when we moved in...probably due to this issue. (The new pump is a B&G NRF-22) This ONLY happens when the boiler is firing. I've checked the site glass for the water and the level during the time of trouble and it is fine (about 1/2 way up). Is it possible the water gets too hot for the pump? The only other thing I can think of is that the water is somehow not flowing properly when boiler is fired.

    Any ideas or help would be much appreciated. I've attached links to images of the boiler (I couldn't attach pictures here for some reason) and the circ. pump connection (it's about 4 feet from the boiler) for a better idea of what things look like. (The yellow arrows show the outflow of water from the boiler running along the floor and up to the pump.)

    http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepp4ow//images/boiler.JPG

    http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepp4ow//images/pump.JPG

    Thanks,
    Brian
  • Been There
    Been There Member Posts: 4
    hot water loop on steam

    Your pump may be cavitating. The water coming out of the boiler is close to boiling during a long heat cycle and the "pull" your pump exudes on it lowers the pressure in the pipe between the boiler and the pump inlet, and this allows the water to boil at a temp lower than 212F. When the water boils in the pipe it makes air bubbles and this will cause the pump to cavitate. You may want to try running a 1/2" bypass from your return to your supply with a ball valve so you can regulate flow to drop the supply temp on your hydronic loop to 180 or so. Oh - and mount your pump right would ya!
  • brian_44
    brian_44 Member Posts: 59


    Kniggit-
    Actually, It's an old picture. Originally when I installed it, I installed it the same way the previous one was installed. I have since installed it as per the directions...that is, the motor is horizontal with the power box on TOP.
    So you feel better, I DID refer to the directions...but only after I swapped out the pump.
    Sorry if I offended you...
  • brian_44
    brian_44 Member Posts: 59
    NEW PICTURE!!!!

    OK...I attached a NEW picture so you can rest in the fact that I DID read the directions...but only after I swapped out the new pump with the old. That should teach anyone to NOT rely on any work previously done. Man...you all are tough.
  • Kniggit
    Kniggit Member Posts: 123


    also pumping away from the boiler would be best, pulling the water through the baseboard would create extra suction on the pump, increasing the likelyhood of cavitation. Also the 1/2" bypass is a good idea, however I would put a good ballvalve in the return to the boiler to alow you to balance the temperature as closely to 180o as you can. this would be the least costly setup you can achive with the setup you currently have, that should work well.
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,242
    b&g series 100

    Take a look at the libary and check out the proper way to pipe a basboard loop off a steam boiler .You should have a high limit on the inlet or outlet of the pump limiting it to at 190 ,200 degrees other wise that cartridge pump is history .A pump like a series 100 ( brass ) would last you alot longer and the impell is desinged a little bit more forgiving then a cartridge set plus the brass will not be effect to the carbonic acids that all steam boilers have to some degree .There should be a full by pass into the suction side of the pump with some balancing valves i have always brought the boiler up for steam and then balanced it out so not to over heat the circulator and the high limit will save your circulator even with the by pass set up while the boiler is steaming it may take a little longer for that supplyt temp to get top 180 or so but it will get to temp and you won't bake your pump .If you contune to use cart circ just remenber you will be replacing cart circ. peace and good luck clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

  • brian_44
    brian_44 Member Posts: 59


    Thanks for the input. I appreciate all the advise. I want to get the room fixed so the kids can play in the basement w/ no worries.

    Brian
  • Bob W._3
    Bob W._3 Member Posts: 561


    Here is that link:

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/heating_howcome6.cfm
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,806
    Brian

    What these guys are telling you is right on.

    I've had the problems myself. Pumping condensate is a nasty job for a pump. You'll find it EATS pumps bad. I've got old ones stacked up in my boiler room like cordwood.

    The cavitating issue is real. You need a bypass between the supply and return with a valve you can use to meter the flow. If you want to get fancy you can install a thermometer there too. Adjust the valve for a lower temperature when the boiler is steaming.

    When you get tired of replacing those circulators, go out and buy a B & G Series 100 in bronze. You'll pay $350, but you'll never have to change it again.

    And make sure that boiler has a working low water cutoff. Otherwise, if the loop leaks, you'll dry fire the boiler and possible blow the house up. And if that happens after the bronze circulator goes in, you'll need a new one of them too.

    Long Beach Ed
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