Boiler Recommendations for New House

none_2 · January 2006

This is the boiler I just put in my house. Vitorond 100 is one of the best boilers for the money on the market. It has outdoor reset and primary/secondary piping. 285 degree stack temp 87.7% efficient. We have baseboard as well and the low temp is 140 @ 66 degree outdoor and 180 at 5 degree outdoor. Our oil consumtion went from 6.85 gallons a day to 4.25 gallons (we had a burnham in before) Not only my opinion, but the proof is in the facts

hope this helps

Chuck Welch · January 2006

Boiler Recommendations for New House

I will have an oil fired boiler with 3 zoned baseboard and an indirect for DHW and I am looking for some general recommendations on a boiler. The HVAC sub my GC is using is recommeding a Viessmann Vitorond 100, and I also got a quote on a Buderus G115. I can use any HVAC sub I want so my options are open. From what I have read on this forum (lots of great info) there is still a benefit going with an outdoor reset even though I will be running somewhat higher temps for the baseboard. It looks like the Viessmann is their low end boiler, is their a big $$$ jump to the Vitorond 200 and what are the diff between the 100 and the 200 ? Everyone in the are seems to service both models so I don't think parts or service will be an issue with either one. Should the Burnhan MPO be in the mix also ?
Thanks

ChasMan · January 2006

As a fellow homeowner I have been looking at boilers for a long time and wantet to get a Veissman. The only issue I can see with the Veissman stuff is it is huge in size. Its over 4 feet long and the flue comes out the back. Not exactly a standard configuration. Also, the vent requirements state no more than 2 90's. That means you basically need to put it in front of your chimney. I dont know about your boiler room layout but mine wont accomidate it without a couple more 90's. You might want to do the Boiler room layout with this in mind.

Also, there is a huge pile of posts here on different peoples experience with different boilers. Id look at that by searching using the manufacturers name. Facinating reading when a couple of old pros start ragging on an Mfg.

Ted_9 · January 2006

Boiler

If the installers are capable, I would recommend the G115 with the R2107. I install systems like this all of the time and they work like champs. I like the vitorond 100 as well, but add a Tekmar control.

Good Luck

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Will_5 · January 2006

MPO

You asked if the MPO should be in the mix and I would say absolutey, IMHO it offers the same low temp protection as the VR200 at a lot less money and no need to for additional primary secondary piping. Haven't heard anyone say anything negative about them, seem to be a solid unit.

none_2 · January 2006

MPO

take a look at the pics...only difference in Vitorond 100 and MPO is boiler protection loop, which if you look in the pics I posted we made our own for about $18 in material and the 100 is much less expensive then the MPO.

grindog · January 2006

vitorond

The vitorond 100 is a fine unit and it the lowest costing of the viessman oil line making it comparable to burnham and others.
This boiler paired up with a reillo burner and outdoor reset it will be a great combination and not hurt the wallet to much.

Will_5 · January 2006

$18

Let me know where you can get a Grundfos Circ, Fittings & Pipe for $18, I must be shopping at the wrong supply house! I do think the VR100 is a good unit, don't get me wrong, but for a little more money why not use a boiler that has boiler protection built-in like the MPO, G215 or VR200.

Canasta Pete_2 · January 2006

MPO vs. Buderus

You already have the Buderus quote, why the MPO? It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Burnham took a Buderus apart and copied the design, look it up, did Burnham ever have a boiler of this design? Buderus, often imitated, never duplicated!!!

O'l Canasta

Unknown · January 2006

Canasta Pete

I'm supposed to be resting and recuperating from heart surgery, but I'm not going to sit by and let you get away with that comment!

First off, know what you're talking about before you come on here with your comments. If you ever took the time to look closely at or install an MPO boiler, you would see that it is pretty much completely different than a G115 Buderus and for that fact, a Vitorond 100. Anyone that has installed an MPO will also acknowledge that it is by far one of the easiest boilers to clean and service out there. From the flow through the boiler to the sectional design they are really quite different.The flow through the MPO ensures that there is less than a 3-4°F temperature difference anywhere through the boiler. That is done with a built-in system bypass of sorts. This allow the boiler to operate with as low as 100°F return water without condensing internally. To get this with the other brand, you will need to invest in a costly control.

All three-pass boilers are similar in design. That is the nature of the beast. So to come on this site and make the stupid comment that you made about Burnham copying the Buderus design is completely ludicrous! There....now I'm going back and follow doctor's orders to stay away from this sort of stuff for awhile.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Unknown · January 2006

CSK

As I mentioned in the post above to Canasta Pete, the MPO and Vitorond 100 are really quite different. What you have added to that Vitorond is a boiler loop. This is an external way of offering return water protection to any boiler but certainly costs more than just $18.00 in material and depending on pipe and pump sizing may not be offering total return water protection anyway. You needed another pump, relay, fittings and valves to install the boiler loop. Add all of that up along with your labor do do so and you have probably exceeded the minor price difference that you will see between the Vitorond 100 and MPO. The return water protection is built-in to the MPO, not added on to it! The ability to totally and effectively clean the whole boiler, front and back, is also something that the MPO offers as well. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Canasta Pete_2 · January 2006

Glenn

BOOOOOOO!

Joe Brix · January 2006

Glad to see you back Glenn

Hope you're feeling better. I hope the Wall keeps you from getting bored @ home! And don't let some of the posters get the blood pressure up. Not worth it. Take it light.

Supply House Rick · January 2006

Glenn, How Much Medication

Are you currently taking? Comparing MPO to Buderus is completely ludicrous! You should cut back on your dosage.
Canasta

Supply House Rick · January 2006

Hey Canasta...

How was Brokeback Mountain?

Will_5 · January 2006

MPO

Why so ludicrous?? Please elaborate.

none_2 · January 2006

Take another look

take a look at the piping...primary/secondary with 1/2 protection. We did this for much less then the MPO and the 200 and runs returns at 120 degree. The MPO is a knock-off of Viessmann and you have marketed it as a new product. Not real inovative.

Unknown · January 2006

Canasta Pete

likes to trash some products and praise others without any elaboration . Do a search with his name and you'll see what I mean . Anything this guy writes is worthless , but I do get a chuckle reading some of his ridiculous posts for the entertainment value . Buderus must be very proud having Canasta Pete as their cheerleader .

Real classy with the " Boo " and " how much medication " comments to Glenn .

NOONE finds that funny , buddy .

Unknown · January 2006

I would say

that you obviously have not been objective enough to take a real close look at the MPO. If you had you would have a better understanding of the boiler, it's water flow principles and flue passage principles. I will once again stress that the three-pass boilers "ALL" pretty much look the same. If you take a real close look though you will see the differences and would think twice about the accusations you just made!

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Joe Brix · January 2006

Give Glenn a break please.

Weil is guilty of the same then. Should we debate who came out with the first cast iron pinned boiler also. Who cares. I'm a bit tired of the German is better line already. We all can't drive BMW's (some don't even care to).

Sure they're a little late to the table, but now they have the product. Be open minded and at least give the product a chance before commenting.

I'm Riello biased, but that will be available soon also.
Nothing wrong with Tekmar controls in my book. I'd rather see a 3rd party specialize in a product and allow the contractor or homeowner to decide what level of functionality they want to pay for.

ChasMan · January 2006

Can you direct vent a Viessman like the MPO?

Just wondering.

grindog · January 2006

reillo

Can you use the reillo burner on a burnham mpo? I have a customer who is interested in this combination.
As far as burnham vs viessman vs who ever, these boilers are all the same principal and design its like the arguement about ford vs chevy which one is better??
As long as the customer is happy and confident with the work you do it doesnt really matter what boiler you install.

Canasta Pete_2 · January 2006

Family Entertainment

That's what I'm here for. I do like the Burnham line and Glenn seems like a righteous dude. I apologize for the BOOOOO. I am a failed stand-up, smart mouthed ex-sailor who found Brokeback Mountain quite enjoyable. Now who wants to go horseback riding? My favorite song is "In The Navy" by the Village People. Oh, Buderus is a better boiler, so is Weil Mclain.

Munchie = Crap

Ol' Canasta

none_2 · January 2006

Protecting your product

Glenn, I respect the fact that this is a Burnham product and I know where you are coming from. I've actually met you before and I think you are a great guy. I do stand behind my statement because of my experience with both and thats how I feel. I do wish you all the best and let's agree to disagree on this one.

Get better soon.

Will_5 · January 2006

Founder of the 3-pass boiler

Say what you are saying CSK is that Viessmann created the three pass boiler and everyone has copied them.

Will_5 · January 2006

Ca \"nasty\" Pete

Your credibilty shrinks by the day! no matter which name you post under. Certainly a case of "good cop - bad cop "

Chuck Welch · January 2006

Good Info / Where can I get Prices ?

Thanks for all the replies and information. Is there aywhere (or anyone) that I can get prices for just the boilers that are mentioned ? Whats the price diff between the Veissmann 100 vs the 200 ? I have a full quote the the Buderus G115 but it was a high level quote and does not break the cost of the boiler. I am not trying to get the cheapest system but the best for what I need and as someone mentions I don't want to go with the lower end boiler (like the Vitorond 100) and add controls which then puts me in the range of the better units (like the Vitorond 200) with the buit-in controls.
Thanks
Chuck

Unknown · January 2006

John

Three-pass boilers have been around for many, many years in one form or another. Pensotti was being imported into the states back in the early 80's and came equipped with a high static burner such as the Riello because it needed to be. This was long before Buderus and Viessmann boilers were even heard of in this country. The majority of three-pass boilers imported still seem to be quite tight through the flue passages and therefore have a pretty good pressure drop. That would account for the Riello and NX burners being used on them.

The pressure drop through the MPO is quite minimal while still maintaining a very good flow and flue temperature drop. For this reason, we chose to configure it with the AFG Beckett burner. As far as I am aware, configuration with Riello and NX is not a priority right now because they perform very, very well with the AFG. In many cases, these are dialing in with a zero smoke and 87%-88% combustion efficiency right out of the box. This will vary of course with various field issues. We are using the NX on the MPO-DV Direct Vent boiler because we need the high static pressure to move the flue gasses. This one you may see configured with a Riello BF burner at some point in time.

Many people seem to think that Buderus and Viessmann invented the three-pass boiler and all others are copies. That my friends is a myth that needs to be clarified.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

brucewo1b · January 2006

Good to sse you Glenn

Yes the first Three Pass boiler was in the mid 1800's, and came into residentual use in 1937, and we are just now coming back around.

B.S.

Canasta Pete_2 · January 2006

Credibility?

When did I have it in the first place? You all know me well, I have posted for years. I have bashed manufacturers when I see fit. Just wanted to stop the phone calls to my business from wallies who take this a bit too serious.
What is credibility? Do you have it? How & Why
Lighten up and have fun, life is short, hug your kids

Will_5 · January 2006

Credibility

I never claimed to have any here, just a guy who has always sat back and tried to live and learn. I just believe that all the major manufacturer's make good equipment and not without some problems along the way, I don't see the need to bash anyone unless they have been non-responsive to their problem. Everyone certainly has their brand preference for whatever reason. I dare you to find me a manufacturer that hasn't had some past products that were less than perfect, here in the U.S. or in Europe.

brucewo1b · January 2006

Have you tried

The Find A Professional link to the left of this page

B.S.

Chuck Welch · January 2006

Prices

I have not tried the link to find a professional. I am only trying to find out the price for the boilers not the full install. One of the previous posts mentions for "a little more money" why not get the VR200, or the G215 that have built in protection. I am trying to determine what that "little more money" is. Is the diff between the VR100 / VR200 $400, $1000 ? What's the diff between the G115 / G215 ? How much is an MPO ?
Thanks

Joe Brix · January 2006

Glenn

Scotch marine design implies multiple flue gass passses through a boiler correct? And I know the technology has been implemented in large commercial boilers (probably on ships, hense the term MARINE) for many years.

Boiler Recommendations for New House

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