One more time for the \"BEKA\" system

KCA_2 · April 2006

I figured that many more guys will be here over the weekend and thought that I'd ask one more time about the BEKA system. Aparently it's a Neuvo Radiant AC system utilizing a mat W/ 3/8" tubs.

I'm being asked to look into it and eventually install one but wanted to see if you guys have had any experiance with one.

Thanks :-) Kca

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[Deleted User] · April 2006

Ken...

Try googling BEKA radiant cooling, and Karo radiant cooling pops up. One in the same?

Any way, the problem with radiant cooling, if it can be perceived as a problem, is the variable dew point. You either have to control the Relative Humidity within the space, or the surface temperature.

Suggest you make sure whatever system you choose has the proper approvals of the code on it, which is a slight problem at present...

ME

KCA_2 · April 2006

Thanks

> Try googling BEKA radiant cooling, and Karo

> radiant cooling pops up. One in the same?

>

> Any

> way, the problem with radiant cooling, if it can

> be perceived as a problem, is the variable dew

> point. You either have to control the Relative

> Humidity within the space, or the surface

> temperature.

>

> Suggest you make sure whatever

> system you choose has the proper approvals of the

> code on it, which is a slight problem at

> present...

>

> ME

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KCA_2 · April 2006

Thanks

Mark... I did "Google" It and found Karo and the like but wanted to see if anyone actually had hands on experiance with it.

As always thanks for the reply amigo

:-) Ken

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[Deleted User] · April 2006

You're welcome...

as always. THe one person I'm aware of that has actual hands on experience with radiant cooling would be Geoff McDonnell. Google geoff mcdonnell radiant cooling and see what pops up. He's is quite knowledgeable and willing to share, and on occasion frequents the Wall.

ME

GMcD · April 2006

That'd be one \"n\" there...

Although the spelling of the Clan name has many variations, I like to think I'm from the black clan of Skye.

I also checked out the Beka system and it appears as though it's variation on the polypropylene plastic capillary mats. Caution- polypropylene is NOT an oxygen barrier material and has to be used with an all-plastic piping system, with stainless steel or bronze valves and fittings, then isolated from the mechanical plant with a heat exchanger to prevent oxygen corrosion of the ferrous components.

KCA_2 · April 2006

So have you used any?

Or did you just check it out? Have they overcome condensate issues. I mean other than giant dehumidifiers?

Apparently the HO went to Germany to check out the manufacturer and now he wants to install it in his home. I'm overjoyed that I can get involved in it but then again I'm a little nervous because I know the limitations.

:-) Kca

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clammy · April 2006

little info

I had ran into a dealer in france about8 to 10 years ago ,who was selling these cap tube system and from what i can remenber i was told that they where using them in conjunction with heat pumps and on the cooling end they only ran the water temp a few degrees below indoor ambient temp to prevent condensation ,the rest of the dehumidacation was done with desenant type air units and a bunch of heat recover type systems.I do remenber him saying most of the building they had installed them in did have some elborate control systems that would modulate the water temp depending on humidity .I sounds like a great way to evenly distrubute chilled or low temp heated water but it sounds like for a home it would be very expensive and may have varing results depending upon how much of a cooling load in sensible and much is latent cooling is needed depending upon geographically location.Plus if i remenber correctly i was told they where installed in plaster walls so who knows how they would work with the construction methods used in the US you know sheet rock .Just a thought peace and good luck clammy

GMcD · April 2006

\"Condensate issues\"??

Not sure what you are asking about there. "Condensation" is a concern with any kind of radiant cooling system/emitter - from the capillary tubes, to PEX in slabs, to suspended radiant panels. Last time I checked, the Laws of Physics and Psychrometrics were the same in Germany as they are over here, so the issue is doing a proper "total system design" that incorporates radiant temperature control, ventilation, and humidity control- all three legs of the total comfort stool.

The capillary tubes being marketted by Karo/Natural Cooling are only made in Europe, so most of the cost of trying to obtain them in North America is import duties, transportation, and middle-man fees.

There are also some State and Canadian Building Code issues that make the use of the polypropylene capillary tubes and the interconnecting thermally welded plastic pipe somewhat of a challenge to use. The polypropylene plastic does not meet the Code flame and smoke spread requirements, so has to be protected somehow in commercial installations. The product isn't UL listed either, so many State Code Authorities insist on a PE sealing and signing off the design, if they'll accept the material in the first place.

Check with Natural Cooling for some of the issues they've encountered over the last few years. It's strange since building fires work the same in Germany, and this type of product is virtually mainstream over there, so the only hang-up, in my opinion, is the "nimby" syndrome (Not In My Back Yard) - no one wants to be first in their neighborhood to use something non-conventional.

One more time for the \"BEKA\" system

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