Opinions wanted on water purification for hydronic systems

Drew_2 · May 2006

Gary, Very nice job. I'm glad to see more people addressing the problems that poor boiler water causes.
I've attached a couple of documents that may be helpful.

Unknown · May 2006

What are you doing about poor water quality?

Meet W.Q. Mobile Unit #1 (see attachment)

Bad water and the results of this from public & private distribution systems around here have me convinced that some measures needed to be taken to effectively extend the lifespan of any & all hydronic components within our heating systems. After a good high limit circulation & flush, we clean & condition the fluid with a 2-step process from Rhomar. Im hoping for a lifetime of no service calls on the systems we put in. Is that too much to ask?

This portable (& potable) set-up is what we plan on using to fill & purge ALL of our hydronic systems with from now on. Our carbon filter in line with a DI resin filter should produce good results. I piped in a built-in bypass with hose connection tees just for fun:-) The auto-feed valves we install are now always shut off and handles removed with perminant signage attached to the piping. The only reason for their presence is for the plumbing inspectors. They know absolutely nothing WRT hydronics.

The second attachment is our temporary auto-fill valve. We leave it on for a couple of weeks & then remove.

What do you guys think? Is this overkill?

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Unknown · May 2006

Oops,,,

Just realized my bypass won't work:-( I'll have to re-pipe it with a couple more valves. What's left in that scrap heap?

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Edited Sat.

Here's the new setup; Version 1.1

Brad, No problems with the Quabbin Res. so far. It's the towns like Acton, Holliston , Sherborn, Dover & Ashland I've encountered some rather nasty stuff in. All town provided wells. Natick has it's own (3) deep wells and no problems here so far other than thermostatic mixing valves fouling within one years time ACKKK!!!!.

I use to have a Silver King hand pump. I wore it out. I now use the pump shown in the second attachment. It whines a bit when you dead head it but , it's been a real champ for filling large SIM systems. You use magnets in yours????

Brad White_67 · May 2006

Oh, the bypass will work all right

just bring soap and a towel when you change the cartidges

I use a single-stage GE Smart Water filter as a portable too but I think you have more bases covered, Gary. You and I are both on the Quabbin system I think? Water quality is generally very good but never perfect. Still the DI setup and carbon cannot hurt.

Like you, I favor Rhomar products. I just went out and bought a Silver King Force Pump (which I learned about, guess where?). Saves a hook up when injecting.

For long-term protection I use a 2 gallon Neptune Filter Feeder either as a bypass or full in-series flow. (In series I lose about 1 GPM of flow, from 7.5 down to 6.5 and with a 10 micron bag.) Some rare-earth button magnets to scavenge any stray iron particles and I am in business.

D107 · May 2006

so should all hydronic systems have water test/additives?

I've been told that only where you have well water, etc. would it be required. Isn't there a simple test that can tell you whether you need additives or not, or filtration?

Thanks,

David

hr · May 2006

Wow

interesting setup. What type of issues are you having with the local water? Hardness, iron, sulpher, taste and smell?

A couple other ideas. I built a similar deal with a small well tank. This allows me to carry good quality water along with me.

I also added a small water meter. With a meter you can see how much fluid the system holds as you fill. Then you know exactly how much chemical to add. It's also handy for discovering small under slab leaks!

Consider the Caleffi fill valve. With it's fast fill position you could eliminate the bypass. Step up to 3/4" if you really need a lot of flow. it also has a quick easy one screw adjustment.

hot rod

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Unknown · May 2006

Gary, you are really getting problems from the stuff within a single fill of a closed hydronic system??

That's pretty extreme, isn't it? wow...

EdyLogicMstr. · May 2006

Yup.

I'm sick & tired of failures due to water quality! I don't want to do service! This is my solution. Any questions?

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EdyLogicMstr. · May 2006

YES. ALL hydronic systems.

At the least you should test for hardness & Ph. Very important. If you intend to walk away from the system & expect the components to last long time, you will pay close attention to water quality.

Why do circulators fail? Air resorbers? zone valves? relief valves?

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Unknown · May 2006

question...

If the water really that BAD going into the heating system, what are they using/doing for their plumbing system? Surely, they have water treatment...

Unknown · May 2006

Nope.

They just drink it. I did for years which may explain my dimentia. The town's water passes all the 'minimum quality standards": established by the board of health. Although we (the US) are known to have the cleanist water in the world, the standards are rather low.

Maybe I can actually make $ with this. Go arond and replace the water in existing systems. Ever try to read the flow rate on a Wirsbo/Upanor flow meter after a year has transpired?

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Unknown · May 2006

geeez

Geezz,, u drinking that stuff while boilers in ur Maine area are dying from the same stuff... What's in ur water in what area of maine? I'm from chicago area, on well

George_10 · May 2006

David

There are many reasons to clean and treat all systems.

Well water is only one reason. In fact on low volume systems, some contractors bring their own water and do not use well water in a closed loop system.

Other reasons are prevention of scale or corrosion. Keeping the pH in a safe area and dispersing sludge.

The pH is critical when a boiler with an aluminum HX is in the boiler.

Scavenging the oxygen in a system is another factor. Oxygen comes in with the fill water and is released when the water is heated. Oxygen also diffuses into the system via different routes. Non barrier tubing is one, but even barrier tubing will not stop it 100%. Pumps, zone valves and adding new water are another.

Doing the cleaning and treatment is a sure way to maintain the health of the heating system and also results in better efficiency and therefore lower heating bills.

The bottom line is it will protect the system and pay for itself in lower fuel bills. This is done routinely in the industrial world for the same reasons. The home owner world is just catching up to these ideas. Probably brought on by higher fuel prices and the upward trend that seems to be in place.

D107 · May 2006

Then water meter's not a bad idea

on boiler supply. We did that on a commercial steam boiler in a city coop just to see how much water was leaving and how much new oxygen filled stuff was coming in. Of course for that HB Smith, water was tested and treated a few times a year.

Thanks George. I know to some it seems like overkill on such small resident boilers and may add to cost of installation price quotes but I will definitely do it for my next one.

Best,

David
(Homeowner)

Opinions wanted on water purification for hydronic systems

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