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1-pipe steam riser slow to heat

Pete_18
Member Posts: 197
If I peg the thermostat higher, the two furthest radiator actually did finally heat all the way across.
Given that I'm pleased with how the rest of the how is heating, is this where venting the riser would help because it would try to get the steam there earlier in the heat cycle, or does the fact that I've already tried taking the radiator vent off and that it made no noticable difference mean that this would be a waste of time and $$?
Given that I'm pleased with how the rest of the how is heating, is this where venting the riser would help because it would try to get the steam there earlier in the heat cycle, or does the fact that I've already tried taking the radiator vent off and that it made no noticable difference mean that this would be a waste of time and $$?
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Comments
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Requesting help from the gurus
Each of my 1-pipe steam mains (L) and (R) are vented with (1) Gorton 2. At the end of my (R) main which heats slightly slower than my (L) main is a 1 1/4 in. riser that feeds 2 radiators.
Radiator #1 - 2nd floor / 35 EDR - 1 1/4 in.
Radiator #2 - 3rd floor / 24 EDR - 1 in.
These radiators are the last to heat in the house, with the one on the third floor being by far the worst and never really heating that great even with long run times.
I've removed the radiator and checked the radiator valve to make sure that it is actually fully open and I've tried removing the radiator vent temporarily to see if that made a difference, but it didn't. Presently I am using one heat-timer vent on each of these radiators set to max-open and I've also tried Gorton D's on these radiators, although they shouldn't need vents this big. I do not hear the vent needing to work that hard.
Besides ripping apart the walls to see what is going on with the pipe in there, is there anything more basic that I should be doing?
From the reading I've done, perhaps I need to be putting a Gorton 1 on the top of the riser, but I've never seen a picture of what something like this would look like. Given that it's just the pipe connected to the radiator valve, where would the riser (main) vent go? Is there any good way to know if this would make a difference and if so, does anyone have a picture of what something like this looks like? Would this go at the top of the 1 in. (3rd floor) or the 1 1/4 in. (2nd floor)?
Any help is greatly appreciated.0 -
If you've taken off the vents....................
run the boiler for more than 30-40 minutes and still ain't hot.....the steamer ain't puttin out enough. Is it sized properly? Undergassed? Could be several things. Mad Dog
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steamer
Thanks for the quick reply Mad Dog.
Yes, the boiler is sized properly and it's definitely putting out enough steam / not underfired.
The 3rd floor radiator does begin to get hot in well under 30-40 minutes, but while the other radiators in the house are getting hot way across like it's the coldest day of the winter after this long run time, this one struggles to get hot beyond 2 sections (and it's a tiny 24 EDR radiator in the coldest part of the house).
This is why I was really wondering if maybe the radiator valve wasn't open all the way, but I ruled that out. One of the other radiators in the house faked me out with that problem and had me ripping my hair out for a few weeks.
If taking the radiator vent off doesn't improve anything, does that tell me that specifically venting the riser wouldn't do much of anything for me?0 -
Try
Slowing the venting rate of the radiators that heat fast, then do a test with the vent off the slow ones.
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hey, thats what i was gonna say!!
hi John..also, does the runout pipes pitch right?
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Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.0 -
And
are you sure your boiler doesn't have a hole in it above the waterline? This would let the steam escape into the chimney instead of getting to the radiators.
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slow other rads to test
Ok, i'll experiment with that. Unfortunately our local supply house doesn't carry any Gorton 6s, so the only vents I have with a lower venting capacity than Gorton Cs are Ventrites 1A's and I haven't been pleased with their venting ability.
However, the other thing you guys made me think of in this is that perhaps I'm redirecting all of the steam to the first (lower) radiator on the riser with the huge vent that I tried to put on it (Wide open heat-timer) to get it to heat up faster as well. One thing I may try is at least slowing down the venting of that radiator, although unfortunately that one heats a little slower than I'd like as well, although much better than the one on the 3rd floor.0 -
boiler
Boiler is perfect, no steam heading up the chimney / hole above the waterline.0 -
where the
Where the insulations on those pipes, sounds like they were removed and steam ran out of gas (no puns here) before gettin to the last radatiors...0 -
With the vent off on the cold rad, on a cold start does it push air and does the boiler shut down on pressure.If so there could be a pitch issue and a water lock or other obstruction to flow.0 -
If this is a thermostat with adjustable anticipator I would suggest checking the setting. When the thermostat is turned way up and the rad's heat up, may be short cycling the boiler.
Just a thought0 -
boiler cleaning /near boiler piping
When ever i see a steam boiler that is slow to steam and is having promblems suppling steam to far or second floor rads what i do is check the boilers water passes or mud legs to ensure that the bottom of the boiler is not full of mud .Usually what i'll do is drain the boiler and remove the boilers plugs then with a hose and a good set of brushes clean the bottom water passes .I have seen boiler so packed with mud that they where very slow to steam and after a good bottom side cleaning these boiler produced steam in 1/2 the time and rads that did not get hot where getting hot .Also is your system equipted with main vents if not have some gorton #1 installed .Also check the amount of venting that your rads have on them in comparision to each other i have seen mains that had to much vent on them cause promblems like uneven heating because all the rads on one main venting was so large that the other main vented nothing and the t/stat got satisifed way before all the rads got warm.Also is your boiler near boiler piping up to snuf?just giving suggestion don't lose paintiences you will figure it out some times you have to forget all you think and know and think like steam peace and good luck clammyR.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
NJ Master HVAC Lic.
Mahwah, NJ
Specializing in steam and hydronic heating0 -
cleanliness is next to steamliness
Hi Clammy,
Very good point on cleaning the underside and checking near boiler piping. The boiler waterline also has to be free of oil, since it can contribute to wet steam, which doesn't circulate as well as dry steam, especially to the upper floors. I think all troubleshooting starts with a "clean" boiler because the "dirty" boiler can give us system symptoms that cause us to pull out the few remaining hairs on our heads.
Peace and best regards, Pat0 -
Check your main vents
Pete:
You should also check your main vents to see that they are vented properly. This is as important as properly venting each radiator. Check the diameter and length of mains. Gorton has excellent 1 and 2 main vents. The cold radiators should have Gorton Ds, or at least Cs on them.
Chuck0 -
mains
Gorton 2s (1) on each main. The far radiators (cold ones) each have a Heat-Timer which vents as much (actually more) than the D. I have tried a D on them as well. I think that I need to look at venting the riser to try to get the steam there faster since it's not only the far end of the colder main, but also up to the top floor. I haven't seen any pictures of where actually I'd vent this given the fact that it's just a radiator valve coming off of the line.0
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