Ethanol; Fact or Fiction

S Ebels · May 2006

Strange coincidence, I was just talking to a salesman this AM about a couple of ethanol plants that may be slated for construction here in Michigan. I popped in the office to check my e-mail and news and this article was on the msnbc web site front page.

Who do you believe?

One thing that I believe to be true is that relying on corn only as a source for ethanol is not practical. The flip side of the coin is that there are other veggie's that can be used and may prove to be even better. For example, along the West coast of Michigan we have loads of fruit farmers who have excess peaches, cherries, apples etc every year. Distilling them, and those all have a much higher sugar content than corn, may be what these compnaies are looking at for the production facilities here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12934470/

GMcD · May 2006

Do the math

It is an always ignored part of the ethanol equation- the life cycle energy input. Add up the fuel used by the farmers to plant, fertilize and harvest the corn (or peaches or whatever) and then the energy input to ferment the stuff and then ship it to market. There is no ethanol pipeline system, so all the North American ethanol produced has to be trucked to the final user end points using tanker trucks. It is a fundamental problem in that ethanol takes more energy to grow, nurture, harvest, process and get to market than the energy it offsets and provides.

Sure' it's a step, but until conservation starts at the terminal end user, it's just a drop in the bucket.

It works a bit better in Brazil where they have a well established ethanol production and distribution system, but much lower labour rates and based on a fast growing sugar cane base rather than a corn based ethanol system.

[Deleted User] · May 2006

And they did not

> It is an always ignored part of the ethanol

> equation- the life cycle energy input. Add up

> the fuel used by the farmers to plant, fertilize

> and harvest the corn (or peaches or whatever) and

> then the energy input to ferment the stuff and

> then ship it to market. There is no ethanol

> pipeline system, so all the North American

> ethanol produced has to be trucked to the final

> user end points using tanker trucks. It is a

> fundamental problem in that ethanol takes more

> energy to grow, nurture, harvest, process and get

> to market than the energy it offsets and

> provides.

>

> Sure' it's a step, but until

> conservation starts at the terminal end user,

> it's just a drop in the bucket.

>

> It works a bit

> better in Brazil where they have a well

> established ethanol production and distribution

> system, but much lower labour rates and based on

> a fast growing sugar cane base rather than a corn

> based ethanol system.

become energy independent until they got their last oil production facilities on line. Wonder if the equipment that plants & harvests their sugar cane are Flex Fuel capable?

Joe Brix · May 2006

Aren't there climate issues?

Don't think the mid-west is suited for fruit or sugar cane
growth. I'd never see it as a gasoline replacement but a supplement.

Brian_18 · May 2006

Here's another interesting magazine article

Sorry, I don't know how to insert a link on this forum, you'll have to cut & paste.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/2690341.html

My take on the whole issue is Politics is driving the entire energy market, including this ethanol craze.

My understanding of the Brazilian situation is that it's HIGHLY subsidized by the government. I guess not necessarily a bad thing if it eventually gives them a position to tell the oil cartel to shove their oil, you know where.

We could achieve better reductions in oil usage IF our government would only push the automakers to better CAFE standards. Easiest thing to do is (rightly) classify SUV's as an automobile....NOT a truck

my 2¢

leo g_13 · May 2006

Last night on CBC

they did a very good review of most of the "alternatives". Ethanol was explained just as geoff said, but with some of the newer technology, there actually is a bit of gain now (according to this report). But the reason why it seemed truthful, was that the reporter stated that if all the land that was farmable in the world, was turned into ethanol crops, there would still be a substantial need for petroleum! There will never be enough ethanol production to rid the world of oil based gasoline.

Leo G

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Ethanol; Fact or Fiction

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