Steam heat for new construction

Here is a brilliant man

Steam is not popular with modern home builders but I think that is because they are under pressure to provide the lowest initial cost and that's perfectly fair. So you have to choose steam, it is not odd at all and I should encourage you.

Everything needed is still available either brand new or antique, the part that is more difficult to find is the installer that knows how to do it. There are reports of new homes with steam on this site, wait for Steamhead's reply.

Radiators come in designer colors nowadays, your wife should love them and they'll be the hottest thing in your home.

Component costs are similar to hydronic but piping costs might be higher because of the larger sizes than with water and depending on the complexity of the home.

Keep in touch until the time you design a home around your steam heat.

Best regards to you and your wife.

Christian Egli

What price is your comfort?

> Someday, I may build myself a house, and I would

> like to heat it with steam. I grew up in a house

> with steam heat and the old cast-iron radiators,

> and think it's the best type of heat out there.

> Of course, most new houses today use scorched air

> or hot water systems, which undoubtedly cost less

> to install than a steam system. But, do any of

> you know any new houses that were built with a

> steam heating system? How much more expensive

> would it be than, say, a hydronic system with

> fin-tube baseboard? Can you even buy the

> traditional, cast-iron steam radiators today?

> Are there other (more modern) styles of steam

> radiators that the wife wouldn't ojbect to?





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Not to get any of the experts mad

But I was under the impression that all steam boilers only get to 80% efficency. Would it make sense to even consider when modulating/condensing technology exsists puting out over 90% efficencies? With the options of zoning and the added safety for children of not having scalding hot radiators in the room, I can't see why anyone would even consider steam. I grew up in a stuffy dry steam heated home and I think my current HW BB house is better. I have great respect for the guys here who can maintain steam systems and have corrected systems that have increased the comfort, fixed noise problems, etc. But other then the non-freezing pipe advantage, I think it would be wrong to suggest steam over a more effcient and well designed HW system for new installs.

just remember that

steam heat is a lot more efficient as radiant than as conductive/convective – if you have a steam radiator by a window, you can sit across the room with the window open on a zero degree day and feel comfortable, I am sure that there is many a public school kid out there with just such a memory of having sat in class with the windows open, and still roasting, that’s the problem with the “old double-hung zone valve”, it may let the hot air out but it don’t stop the radiant heat,
anyway, plan on have all the radiation in plain sight, by windows, or near the TV where is can radiate on viewers, and, since dark flat objects are better infra-red emitters, than shiny/smooth objects – don’t plan on having them look to pretty – unless of course you get creative – like having hidden radiators – reflect off shiny walls – trust me it works – light is light – if you point an infrared temp gun at a radiator through a mirror “whad-ya-git”, infrared energy of course – though, you do have to factor in, the increased distance to the radiation and the resultant light dispersion

having said that – if you set up right – your fuel bills based on current costs for a normal run-o-the-mill sized house, should be 140-180 per month – it doesn’t get better than that!!! – real world experience has shown that, fully condensing hydronic radiant is NOT I repeat IS NOT cheaper to run!!!

If you do it wrong, it’s hell – I have an institution in my neighborhood that had 1million btu of radiation and a 1 million btu boiler, now the building only has an ibr load of 670k so it was already wrong, then the boiler died and they replaced it with 1.5million btu boiler and they also remodeled and recessed the radiation into the walls, – so now – the whole system short cycles on 40seconds and is basically useless even though it’s costing them 5000 per winter –

people just don’t like black radiators on the wall – even though it’s provides the best heat – so if you wife doesn’t want exposed radiators, don’t even think about it – go for the next best thing, put aluminized sub floors onto floors, or ceilings or walls – drop in pex tubing, hook it up to a condensing boiler and have a nice day

Copper pipe

would be useful on return lines, but I'm not sure any soldered or brazed joint would survive for long on steam lines.

But the headroom problem can be solved.... if you run your steam main perfectly flat, and take your runouts off from the bottom at a 45-degree angle and drip each one to the wet return, each will drip the main and it won't bang. This appears in one of my Dead Men's Books but I forget which one.

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Everybody in this post is coming up with the good arguments, it is a delight.

Here is what I have to think about the surface temperature. The radiator all full of steam at, say, 5 ounces (which condensates at 213F) should measure no more than 213F. The supply pipe will measure that for sure unless there is a big pressure drop at the valve.

But if the radiator itself goes into a slight vacuum you'll see a small drop.

That's the theory, now prove me wrong with the facts. It's always the way it happens.

Can you also install a pressure gauge on your radiator, just to let us know?

ok here goes

Like Dan says, it takes one British fellow with a tweed suit, briefcase , bowler hat, and umbrella, to raise an English pound of water on degree, but at 212, it takes another 970 of them British fellas, to turn the same temp water into “shteem”, so the total number of brits working for you in that pound of water is 212+970=1182, which would be the temp, you would have to get a pressurized hydronic system to, on order to possess the same energy, – now you might ask who cares – we will just circulate more btus over from the hydronic boiler, problem is, that takes time, and energy, and if you wanted to open a window and let some fresh air in at the same time, the hydronic system just couldn’t keep up, where as the steam, just keeps condensing and maintaining the same 212 infrared energy steady – it’s a thing of beauty – this efficient energy transfer mechanism mitigates the losses from it’s boiler not being a fully condensing type – though there is no reason, that a secondary heat exchanger, couldn’t be put on the flue, to recover energy for hot-water based loads

steam only falls apart, when you only want to heat a small section of the house at a time, for such a load, even modern radiant is no good, neither is central forced air, for that, you need a hydronic system with a fan coil blower per room, each with it’s own tstat – and you can uses that for cooling too with a liquid chiller

I definitely go Radiators

Convectors, shich have very little mass,will tend to act alot like forced air with steam.... They produce pulses of hot air that race to the ceiling when the steam heat up the convector. The radiator heats more slowly and absorbs the heat of the steam and evens out these pulses...improving comfort and efficiency.

Also, in a new home the radiators would be very small since the heat load is small. Piping would probably be pretty small too. A typical medium sized bedroom would only need about 12 EDR or a 3 section, 3 column radiator 38 inches tall.... total real estate needed (including space for valve) would be less than 1 sq ft.

Boilerpro

Boilerpro

Thanks I will

Mad Dog

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