Double standard?

eleft_4 · June 2004

Double standard?

The representative of a well known burner supplier informed me the post purge on a balanced flue system, when going into post purge indefinitely, did not constitute a danger. Therefore a recall will not be done.

The replacement for the K7R is available for purchase.

Quote:
"And I would never tell anyone to leave a dangerous situation in someone's home. The K7R just would post purge indefinitely. That's it. I didn't work out with that control, and that's all there is to it"

Murph'_5 · May 2004

They got beat up......

Over at OTT pretty bad, thanks for the info!!

Murph'

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Robert O'Connor_6 · May 2004

My experience

with them is that they seem to have a good product. A little more complicated than it needs to be but well built.

I have had issues with their support. They have wasted my time a couple of times telling me try this or that nozzle.

Al, what you are highlighting in my opinion shows that they don't care about Americans. The Europeans are increasingly anti American . Why else would they recall a product in one country and not another?

Regards,

Robert

Dan Peel · May 2004

Jurisdiction

The Fire Marshall's office in Ontario, where the "voluntary" warranty is posted from, carries a very big stick and have the authority to shut down any site or piece of equipment they choose. I do not expect there is any anti-anybody sentiment involved by any stretch of the imagination. Enjoy.... Dan.

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Robert O'Connor_6 · June 2004

It's

hard to know since they are not telling us. Dan you might be right.

Why wouldn't they want to offer the same guarantees/warantees to the American consumer?
All they can say here is buy a replacement part.

Very strange.

I agree with Eleft about double standards.

Regards.

Robert

eleft_4 · June 2004

The definition of

not being responsible equates to passing the buck or weaseling out of the problems their methods, data, specs or products cause the consumers or techs.

al

Robby P · June 2004

What does the firemarshalls authority.......

have to do with a manufacturers recall?

Voluntary just means they did it themselves without being ordered to, correct??

Isn't that the"right" thing to do?

Why was'nt it done here?

eleft_4 · June 2004

Look here!

Copy and paste this.

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr00/riello.html

Well, what do you think ?

It was believed to be a recall on a control(ET25). The (K7R)turns out to be as defective as the unit it replaces.

This is the answer from the rep.

>"this industry doesn't seem to recall until it is a hazard.

> This relay wasn't a hazard, it just liked to post purge

>indefinately."

When does the heat come back on?

al

Robert O'Connor_6 · June 2004

$125,000 fine

Then the relacement part was deffective in some cases,

Why aren't they recalling that one?

Do they like paying big fines like they did the first time?

Bud Fan · June 2004

Riello BF

How do we know if the K7Rs we all put in service after the recall are good to go?

The never ending post purge cycle is most undesirable yet "not a hazard?" That's laughable.

eleft_4 · June 2004

al

eleft_4 · June 2004

This is the answer to your question.

Quote from the rep:

> You can always install the new AL 1009 later. Not every install needs the post purge (depends on the boiler type). In fact, in Italy, they think post purge is a BIG waste of energy. That burner is seal tight, you should be OK for now.

Robert O'Connor_6 · June 2004

You have

to buy it though right?

eleft_4 · June 2004

K7R to AL1009

None of my correspondence with anyone from this co. ever offered any other solution.
No offer to replace the notoriously defective K7R control with the new AL1009.
I have inquired on line if anyone has used the AL1009 and what are the results, my guess is they are turning off the post purge feature.

Does AL1009 cure the problem and how long and under what conditions has it been tested?

Unknown · June 2004

K7R AGAIN

Shouldn't Riello be stepping up to the plate here and issuing new pre/post purge controls under warranty? What about the ones I have out there now?

Apparently, Buderus received word in March of 2003 that there was also a problem with the new K7R control which replaced the recalled ET25 on their Riello BF Burners. In September of 2003, Buderus began to receive their Riello balanced flue (BF) burners equipped with an all new AL1009 pre/post purge control.

Riello is handling the replacement of the K7R directly. I was told by Buderus to "refer questions directly to them about what the issue's where and why on the K7R and to contact them at: 1-800-474-3556 and have the serial numbers of the K7Rs available."

I'm told "to date the all new AL1009 control has being preforming well." 3rd times a charm?

I can't imagine running the post purge indefinitely is saving my customers any fuel! Talk about standby loss!!!

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eleft_4 · June 2004

Gary,

What answer did you get?

Does your area go below freezing?

How about vacation homes?

Does this co. expect you to have a 24hr watchman on the job when you are not there?

This is the answer from the rep.

>"this industry doesn't seem to recall until it is a hazard.

> This relay wasn't a hazard, it just liked to post purge

>indefinately."

al

Robert O'Connor_3 · June 2004

K7R - AL1009

My experience is quite seemless. I don't understand all the fuss. Riello will replace any K7R once it has failed, no questions asked. It is my understanding that not all K7R's failed, but I,m not sure. But, return the defective K7R to your wholesaler, and a replacement will be made available. That's MY experience and policy, supported by Riello. We have replaced many with the AL1009, no problems to date. It did take a while for the AL1009 to be thoroghly tested, both in Canada and Italy, and made available.

Let's move on to more relevent issues.

Jed

Robert O'Connor_6 · June 2004

Geez Jed

I guess Eleft is bringing this to discusssion cause it is relevent to him.

Just like your experience is relevant.

Are you a wholesaler of Riello products?

If its not relevant to you don't participate. No one's holding a gun to your head.

Regards.

Robert O'Connor

eleft_4 · June 2004

Let's move on to more relevent issues

Jed,

The complete relevent issue is in your email.

hope this helps,

al

Robert O'Connor_3 · June 2004

Well, maybe

the "relevent" comment was mis-spoke. I retract that.

Jed

eleft_4 · June 2004

Gary Wallace

Has anyone you Know used the # above or have you, and what was the response if any?

al

Robert O'Connor_6 · June 2004

Well Al

Its been a few weeks since you started pursueing this company publicly. You posted your problem in great detail at thir discussion board also.

Are they gonna make ya happy? Any contact ?

Regards

Robert

ME

eleft_4 · June 2004

The last word!

This is the portion pertaining to the K7R from the last correspondence: quote from J.M. 5/26/04

"I would never encourage or cause any problems on anyone. And I would never tell anyone to leave a dangerous situation in someone's home. The K7R just would post purge indefinitely. That's it. I didn't work out with that control, and that's all there is to it.
I hope this clears up the matter. Have a nice day."

Robert O'Connor_6 · June 2004

Its

difficult to believe that such a large company known for quality products would ignore you . I judge manufacturers strongly by how they deal with problems.

I guess they are the # 4 here behind even Wayne in my market, Wayne sells lots of burners on water heaters, pressure washers and mobile home units. I don't see them moving up.

I have been watching your post on their site for 2 1/2 weeks and have seen no response there either.

Double standard?

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