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OT What is this metal piece found in excavation?

D107
D107 Member Posts: 1,922
edited August 7 in THE MAIN WALL

Found this today while contractors were excavating back yard of 1924 house. Along with it were some apparently old water pipes, bricks. Since the water pipes were nowhere near the water line I'm assuming they have been dumped by a prior homeowner––who was also a building contractor––when they replaced the water lines. This piece has a hole at one end for a bolt, etc.

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Comments

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,286

    Old duct strap? Mad Dog

    D107
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    cistern, septic tank, cesspool

    cisterns were really common in the early 20th century for clothes washing and that sort of thing, the downspouts would empty in to it and it would usually have a pipe in to the basement to draw water out of it.

    D107
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,922

    @mattmia2 @Mad Dog_2 Thanks Matt and Matt. Bingo on septic tank since the excavation was done to correct a depressed area in the yard which we know was caused by a septic tank. In this case the tank turned out to be nothing more than collection of large rocks cemented together into a dry well a century ago. There was some kind of conduit going in from the main house waste, a clay storm water drain line from the rear roof leaders, and then some either galvanized or lead detached 3/4" water pipes. I can't see why there would ever have been water pipes connected here so I figured that the prior owners dumped them in there when they replaced their water lines and/or switched to municipal sewers in the mid 1950s. Or did septic tanks have vents? Not sure galvanized bends like this.

    IMG_5004.JPG
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734
    edited August 8

    galvanized will bend but it takes a lot of force. lead bends more easily. galvanized that has been in the ground for decades unless it is a very dry climate usually is very rusty. if it was a cistern that would have clay pipe from the downspouts going in to it and pipes returning to the house.

    D107
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,922

    We could have had both cistern and septic tank in the same pit. I guess a cistern could be located fairly near a septic tank, though probably placed higher —to protect against contamination—and so that the water pipes going back to the house could be a few inches lower to enable flow and still enter the house high enough for access. When we did a sewer line a few months back we found a cistern/dry well off of the front leader, no water pipes but the theory would be that that well prevented water from flowing onto the sidewalk whenever it rained—at least back a hundred years ago.

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,705
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,922

    On second thought though I know galvanized is known for sealing from within, this is so extreme…and if this wasn't a pipe what is it?

    IMG_5016.JPG
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    can you bend it with your hands without using it as a large lever? if so it is lead. the fact that it is dull gray instead of orange and black makes me think it is lead.

    Mad Dog_2
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,538
    edited August 9

    Is it lead jacketed or lead-sheathed wire cable / electrical cable ? If you are sure it is de-energized cut a bit off the end for a better (cleaner) inspection. Capture the chips from cutting.

    image.png image.png
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    Mad Dog_2PC7060mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    it could be old lead sheathed uf

    are there any older outbuildings that no longer have power?

    lead sheathed uf was replaced with pvc uf in the 60's or so.

    D107
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,922

    When I get time I'll cut off a piece of the cable. It is impossible to bend by hand and there's rust stains, so probably not lead. But it does make more sense if it is electric cable—if I look closely I can almost see the cut ends. That makes a lot more sense than water pipes in that location. Seems entirely possible in 1924 for them to run an underground line to the detached double garage. Those days the entire house was probably only 60amp service or less. It was 100amp by late 90s and now 200.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    Steel will be springy, lead will be maliable and stay more or less where you bend it. Could be rigid or intermediate conduit with wires pulled in it.

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,478

    Did you try a magnet on it?

    You could scrap lead off the sheaf if that is what it is.

    Could that have been the original UG feeder to the house?

    Our utility had similar cable UG feeding post street lights from the 1920's.

    Won't bend easily because of the rubber insulation inside.

    mattmia2D107
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    what fun would bringing a magnet in to this be…

  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,922

    So the pipe is steel after all, as the magnet has declared. So will cut it soon to inspect. I will have to ask some local historian if the electric ran on overhead lines when it first arrived here. If it was then I'd assume the UG was between the house and garage.

    Then we'd have an interesting history here since there still, in addition to the current, working buried PVC garage line, a soft, old rubber foam covered cut line which I had assumed was the original line that sticks up from the ground a few inches. Have to pull that and see what that reveals.

    The prior tenant had said: "The garage had no electricity when we moved in late '70s.  We were told that there had been an overhead line, hung between the house and the peak of the garage, the terminus of which you must be seeing on the ground on the left side of the garage.  The actual cable remained in a coil in the basement for a long time."

    So an original underground line, an overhead line and the current line. That seems possible given the 100 year-old history. Then there's a 3/4" circular cutout in a rear basement window frame for either a gas or electric line….

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    It was pretty common to run sillcocks through window frames.

  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,922

    So here the green arrow shows the current 3/4" grey pvc 20amp buried line we'll be replacing; the red arrow shows a buried line with the soft rubber outside. The prior tenant said she heard that the line that was gone by the time she arrived there ran from the house overhead to the garage roof. So I guess it's possible there was the original buried steel line, then a buried soft rubber line, and then an overhead line, then a buried pvc line.

    IMG_5053ed.JPG
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    so cord isn't rated for use like that

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,734

    unless that is ser or sec or something like that

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,538

    Is this 18 inches down from the surface ? It should be. If the new run is also PVC it also should be 18 inches down too.

    image.png
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    D107mattmia2
  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,922

    It will be.