Heat Exchanger End Flange Decapitation
Comments
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What about a die grinder with a saw or abrasive disc on it and cut around each tube from the inside to release the tube sheet? or something with a bar and some cutter wheels to make an internal tube cutter. cutting the tube sheet around each tube with a big hole saw isn't impossible either since it is copper. maybe even one of those speedbore supreme bits, might work in copper.
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You could just drill 3/4" into each of the copper tubes ends (160 x 2 = 320 holes) the same O.D. as the tube and simply just push them all out .... that would work easily!
……. then just use a 2 ft shallow core hole saw (they make them that big!) to cut out the copper bulkhead on each end!
or
just simply cut out the bulkhead with a jigsaw! (lot cheaper!)
Matt! ….. I'm liking it! : )
……… I'll put skinny girl on it and tell her "I'll be back tomorrow to help load up the copper!" LOL!! : )
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……… I'm gonna try this out tomorrow!
Your only drilling out the wall thickness of the 1/2" copper tube!
Then push one end with a wooden dowel til it presents itself at the other end.
Pull out 5 feet and cut off (max. size for the scrap weigh table!)
Should go fast!
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….. Update:
This (above post) worked very well! ….. but is way too labor intensive! : (
It well exceeds the cost to benefit ratio of worthwhile metals scrapping.
The 12" carbide tip circular saw and long saw zaw blade method ….. works very well, but is labor intensive and significantly prone to personal bodily injury.
My focus is now back on the diamond grit cutting wire paradigm.
Fabrication of the required "slack take-up" frame and motor mounting is an quick and easy done deal (1" copper pipe and fittings).
I now realize I don't need high precision guide rail and roller bearings $$$. Simple self-lubricating polymer "Iglide" will work just fine at one third the cost! Also I don't need a separate guide rail, as the "slack take-up" frame is tubular and perfect for the required guide rail.
What's left is the drive sheave and four idler pulleys.
The manufactures' of the diamond grit cutting wire offer these components at an outrageous cost $$$ ….. as they are special purpose items : (
Thier basically just a standard sheave and pulleys with a rubber or polyurethane inner lining for gripping the cable.
I'm sure I can emulate this gripping attribute in a standard $20 motor sheave and $15 pulley from Graingers. I'm thinking standard rubber or polyethene "O" rings sized to fit the bottom of the sheave and pulleys "V" belt groove (two griping rings in each).
The "auto-tensioner" motor and "rolling ring" drive is an economical solution for a "set and forget" operation of the cutter.
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seems like a weight, a rope, and some pulleys could accomplish the tensioning
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Yes! …… but for example, on this job I don't have a lot of clearance around the chillers. The clear weight rope length needed off the tension pulley to the ground would be around 6 feet (guess).
Just a small tension motor with a rolling ring drive makes it a set and forget operation.
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...... footnote
In the videos posted earlier, that's a 3/4" steel diamond grit cable.
That's because the motor drive is far from the cylinders to be cut (approx.50 feet of cutting cable ... $$$)
My drive motor is attached to the cylinder itself ...allowing for a minimum length and diameter of diamond grit cable (only 10 feet)
I will only need a 1/4" diameter diamond grit loop!
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whenever I hear diamond I think very expensive. How much is the estimated scrap value here and the estimated cost to build this rig to run the wire?
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There is no way around "labor intensive" or "time" unless you can rig the whole thing out. And that costs time and labor as well.
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industrial grade diamond isn't that expensive
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Well ……. of course its all relative . The diamond grit loop I need for my set-up is around @$350.00
You have to weigh in the labor savings, heavy moving equipment, worker safety, etc. into the entire mix.
As this is my first go at a commercial metals scrapping project, I can't speak from experience ……. but it looks like ya can make very worthwhile cash …. but only if you can quickly and easily "cut the big project" into smaller manageable sizes.
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Hi Ed!
I hear ya! : )
Without a doubt, the biggest labor expenditure is in the cutting thru of the 1/4" steel containment vessels. That's where all the work and personal dangers are.
Standing on a step stool, trying to cut a 6 foot long cut around a 2 foot cylinder with a 12" carbide toothed blade grinder, with sparks showering all around you, and the saw suspended from a rope tied from the ceiling to help control the motors weight ….. is indeed "labor intensive"
I feel my easy set-up eliminates this labor from the project!
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…… foot note:
After decapitating the end flanges and removing the copper tubing inside, I let drop to the floor this now empty cylinder.
To get a sense of how much it weighed now, I got at one end and tried to raise it off the floor.
I couldn't lift just this one end of the cylinder at all!! : (
Was like it was welded to the floor!
You need heavy moving equipment for something like this.
I'll just diamond grit loop cut this tube into smaller sections and carry out!
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Well if it is stuck to the floor, you can't get the diamond rope around it, but you still can torch it. ; )
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
LOL!! : )
I had to cut up a 25foot long old time printing press (massive steel everything), but first had to roll it out side.
By simply putting 6 foot lengths of black pipe under it ...... we could push it quite easily! .… (the cutting torch was 4 foot long and worked like a dream!)
(Hey! ….. I'll pass this on to my Egyptian friends, …. so for the next time they want to build one of those pointy buildings again! ) : )
I can just roll this cylinder up on a few 2 x 4 wood blocks and attach the loop around it!
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I am curious how the Diamond rope works out.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Me too! : )
I'll shoot video of the saw's construction and assembly and the on-site set up and performance.
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...... check out "rolling ring" drives on Google ..… it's an awesome and inexpensive way I'm applying the auto-tension for the loop slack take up!
Just one drive can produce 600 lbs of pulling force! ...... all on just a non -threaded (smooth pipe tube) guide rail.
…… it makes "imaginary" climbing threads …. as the pipe spins.
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I know your full swing into this thing but just wanted to send you this great video that actually shows a tool to cut the tubes from the inside of the pipe itself where maybe if you bust your butt cutting the flange off of one side you may be able to ream and drill out the soft copper tubes on the other side to pull them out instead of cutting through the whole tube and flange again. Maybe someone can do the reaming and drilling while you're monitoring the cutting rope. The copper is the softer and most valuable part so not sure if this is a way to kind of divide and conquer the job.
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Not sure of your budget or time frame but I always believe in trying the right tool for the job before I go into beast mode on a project. Here's a really cool clip where a person is able to pull out the tubes using a hand tool that is designed specifically for that type of tubing pulling job.
Here is the tool and its made in the USA so it may be available to ship depending on the size you need.
Heres a video showing how a similar model works.
Cool project whichever way you go with it. Good luck.
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That's awesome !
.….. you do realize I have to scrap the shell and copper tubes as well?
After slicing the flanges off ...... the copper tubes pull out with one hand!
No tools needed!
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First big demo job I did was cutting up a 1927 HRT high pressure steam boiler. In 27' to be sure welding was being done but was not in widespread use. The shell on this boiler was 3/4" thick. However because it was a riveted shell the (2) 3/4" plates were overlapped and riveted with an additional 5/8 plate to reinforce it so the total thickness where the plates were joined was over 2" thick.
This boiler shell was 20 feet long and 8' in diameter and had maybe 100 3" tubes.
We (3) 25 year old dummies (around 1980) Cut up the entire shell and the tubes with 2 cutting torches and hauled it to the scrap yard in a 1978 Ford 1/2 ton PU, many, many trips.
I thought I could cut with a torch but after this job I could really cut. We bought the largest tanks of actylene and oxygen we could and the large torch tips. We cut so fast the oxygen tank were sweating we were pulling the vapor out so fast. Of course it was summer so it was hot in the boiler room.
When that was done we had dumpsters delivered and rented a bobcat with a front end loader (Luckely the boiler room was ground level) and we scooped up all the brick and fire brick and yes asbestos (1980 anything goes) (enough to fill 2 20 yard dumpsters
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........ Yikes!! : (
I'm still lost! ...... where is the term "sheets" comming from?
The shell being a flat "sheet" at one time , then being rolled up into a cylinder?
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the bulkhead that all the tubes are swedged in to in a fire tube boiler at the ends is called a "tube sheet"
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the technology to do structural welding didn't exist until around wwii. you could have got an air or electric chisel and sheared the rivets off. or burned them off with the torch.
i think we've drifted in to the CO thread here.
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because it is a sheet of metal that all the tubes connect in to?
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yes
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I think the tubes here are much larger. of course it could still ne worth getting a very large turned down twist drill or reamer and put it in a gearhead drill motor.
edit:
never mind. i thought the tubes were a couple inches. you can get a twist drill up to 1" to drill them out and release them.
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Sheet metal, flat, cut round for the diameter of the chiller, and in your case about 160 holes put in it, Sheets.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System
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1" drywall or plywood is still a sheet
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a flat sheet has little structural strength so the tube sheets on most boilers need to be pretty thick
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Sheet, plate whatever you call them. the boiler companies call them tube sheets.
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anymore you need to have a hot work permit from the local fire department to have any tools with flame or sparks in a commercial or public building. This includes a trained fire watch person.
I believe the fire watch person stays on the sits for a period of time after work is completed?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
@hot rod
When the whole fire watch got started we were doing a job on the South Shore below Boston which was a 2hr trip for me. Fire watch wasn't enforced in Western MA back then.
We were informed (after we got the job) that we had to employ off duty firemen from the city and pay them time and 1/2 and they had to be on site for welding and soldering. We were working in 5 different buildings some had steam some were HW. I had about 8 fitters working for me. We were doing PP and Victaulic for the water anyhow except the unit ventilators had soldered connections. I wanted to solder fitting on them outside in the parking lot but the weather didn't cooperate. The unit vent were to tight to PP couldn't get the gun in there.
So I found an electric soldering iron made to sweat 1/2 & 3/4 and we used that. No flame
But the steam was a lot of 4" & 6" pipe that had to be welded. We had 6 steam boilers going in. So we hired the fireman.
That is until I caught one of them outside sitting in his truck while we were working in the boiler room and he was drinking coffee and reading the paper.
After that I said "let them catch me" They never did.
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I thought you mentioned using a carbide or abrasive tools? Those would require a hot permit. As would a torch or plasma cutter.
It is a liability issue not operator skill concerns.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1
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