Started smelling "sulfur-ey" odor in the house.
Couple days ago started smelling a "burnt match/sulfur-ey" odor in the house. Checked around, did not see any issues with oil burner, etc.
Noticed it again today. Again checked around oil burner and found "fresh shoot" around the area outside the flue pipe "flapper". Also, the oil gauge was WAY lower than I expected, having had 100 gallons delivered just 10 days ago.
It's a Burnham v8 3 section, with the pump enclosure, fresh air supplied.
I could see smoke out the chimney.
Opening vacuum breaker and removing the noise hood made notdifference to the smoke.
I adjusted the air band for no smoke, but found the flue temp hit 900 and still climbing. So, I shut things down to contemplate and ask the Pro's.
Just a month ago, I noticed smoke and took time to do a "complete service", cleaned the channels (some were pretty well sooted up), new filter, nozzle. Worked great at the time.
Done my own work for several years and have a Bacchach oil burner test kit.
The smoke seemed like "not enough air", but then moving to clear that, perhaps too far, the flue temp shot up. Wondering if I got a load of bad fuel and it just now wore out the nozzle?
Guess my first step might be to bleed a bit of fuel and give it a look and smell test, change the nozzle and adjust things?
Suggestions? This is a rural area and techs are a nickel a bushel and, from what I've seen and heard, worth every cent. Playing dice with calling one seems not worth the risk.
Thanks for any help.
Comments
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Upon opening things up, changed the nozzle, just because.
Thought, well, should just clean the channels, just because, and found them very sooty.
Side entrance was not too bad but those accessed from the top were heavy sooted, with some blocked completely. The flue stack I removed for access was quite sooty as well.
I drained a bit of fuel and it smells and looks normal.
All that I cleaned just a month ago. Duh . . .?0 -
Top and side access leads you to the same place. A sooted heat exchanger.
What burner? What nozzle? What pump pressure? What's the vacuum reading? What's the draft reading? What's the condition of the chamber? What's the condition of the chimney? You have the Bacharach wet kit? Do you have a smoke tester?
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Sooted is right. But I cannot clean it completely without accessing both.
Becket AFG. .85 nozzle. Pressure 140, per book and measurement. Don't know the current vacuum, but it was correct last time I checked. The chimney is masonry beyond the 6 " flue. There is a "bird cap" on top that I put up there a few years ago. Beyond that, has not been checked for a while.
Yes the test kit has both the CO2 (red fluid) tester, smoke tester, thermometer.
The canopy seal was pretty much destroyed when I removed the canister. Won't have new until some time tomorrow, so, except for cleaning the heat exchanger nipple channels, pretty much no more will happen today. Maybe swing the door open to look at the chamber more closely.
For what it's worth, moving the air band creates dramatic differences in the sound, shape and color of the flame, so I tend to doubt is it a chimney blockage. And I noted a pretty good draft up it when I brushed the remaining flue pipe leading to it, while cleaning.Weather is warmer next couple days, so, I will use the mini splits for heat.
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Close the air band till the fire looks ok and the test for smoke. When you get a #1 smoke open the band slightly (make small adjustments) until you are just getting 0 smoke, take a Co2 you should be around 11-12.5%. Then open the air band a smidge until you drop the co2 about 1%. Then recheck the smoke.
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Back again.
I went through a complete "tune up". Things I did:
The heat exchanger "nipples" (my term) were heavily sooted, so cleaned from top and from sides. Removed the flue pipe, sooty as well and cleaned that too. Well had to to get the top cover off anyway.
Swung the door open and away, cleaned up the soot in there.
Checked pump pressure, seems to hold steady at 140 psi. New nozzle. Fuel seem clean and smells right.
Checked draft, over fire, and in flue pipe.
Got C02 right, I think. Around 10.5 %. Even used new fluid. No smoke visible on paper.
Ran fine for two days. Today, went to check oil level in tank found soot outside of flue damper.
Not going to use it till I have an idea of what the heck is happening. This is the THIRD soot up in the last few weeks after running normally for years.
What have I missed here?0 -
Combustion air?
Is that equipment installed in a basement?
Does the room that the equipment fit the definition of a confined space?
As long as the door to the heater room is open when you are working on the burner, the combustion air may be just fine. As soon as you close the door to the burner room, then where does the combustion air come from?
A confined space for combustion air is defined as a space that does not meet the volume requirement of at least 50 cubic feet per 1,000 Btu of input rating, or is sealed so tightly that normal infiltration air is not adequate for combustion. In such spaces, combustion air must be provided using one of the methods set forth in the code regulations.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Chimney problem?
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Sounds reasonable, or excess fuel.
But, it has had a dedicated fresh air intake from the date of installation. 4" smooth wall galvanized duct. Which appears clear. It does have a "sound cover", for the AFG but pretty sure I at least checked smoke after buttoning it all up. The air intake has a "vacuum breaker" (a flapper/draft deal) which never activates (while I'm there).0 -
With good draft? How to tell? Chimney sweep?
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Oh, I forgot to mention last time (before this) it sooted, I measure the stack temp and it hit 900 and was climbing when I shut it down and tore into it again. Did not check it this time.
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@joea99 , you really, seriously need a pro for this. Where are you located? We might know someone………
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Near Kingston NY zip 12484
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Describe the process for a smoke test and when it should be taken. Also where is the test hole and where is the draft regulator in relation to the test hole.
You wrote in your first post (Paraphrasing), "It's a Burnham V83 with the pump enclosure, fresh air supplied." Have you checked for a blockage outside? Is there a barometric relief?
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The zero to a trace of smoke is measured as close to the place where the first piece of connector pipe is attached to the boiler. There should be at least 6" of pipe from the test hole in that pipe before the barometric draft control is located.
This Barometric draft control I’m talking about is the one on the exhaust connector pipe. Not the barometric relief opening on the air intake.
Both the exhaust barometric and the intake barometric look similar and work the same way but have 2 different functions.
The exhaust barometric control is designed to keep the same pressure over the fire so that the changing chimney draft will not affect the amount of combustion air delivered to the flame as the burner fan pushes combustion air against an ever changing exhaust pressure/draft that would happen if there was no draft control. The barometric draft control will open and close constantly to accommodate the constant changes of the chimney based on barometric pressure, wind and temperature of the chimney and the outside ambient air. That way the flue gas pressure will stay constant from the combustion chamber thru the boiler up to the boiler flue exit. That way the pressure (or draft) over the fire will always be the same so the amount of combustion air from the burner fan will stay constant.
The one on the intake is designed to allow combustion air to enter the burner from the boiler room if the air intake ever gets blocked.
Sometimes as experienced technicians like @HVACNUT and others we assume that you understand what is in our mind's eye with the words we use. I had the idea that you may not be taking the combustion test properly, so this more detailed explanation should make it just a tad clearer. You may already know this but I needed to say it so I know that you know. Not because I don't believe you have the capability to get this correct.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Thanks for the input. No offense taken at all, I've done "tech support" in another field and learned never to assume any knowledge on the part of the "user".
It's a top exit burner. V84, BTW, not V83, my error.
The draft control is 22, to center, from top of burner. I don't know what "stack switch" is.The smoke test hole is 5 inches from top of burner, where the first pipe section starts, so seems It's OK.
I noticed the draft control is moving a bit, even with the unit cold, and can feel draft, but I suppose that is normal with any kind of breeze outside.
Fired it up and took a smoke test, got around 8. Pretty bad. That was with the sound cover on or off the AFG burner.
Opened the air band a bit and got a dramatic change in flame, but when I went to do a smoke test, the stack temp was hitting 900, so shut down to comment here.
The rotary "air band" is pretty much closed, so I was thinking of closing the "gross adjustment" a bit so the air band has more adjustment range and when "right" is closer to mid way open. Yes/no/maybe-so?
No clue beyond that why it should go from "good/no smoke" to an 8.Thanks for any advice.
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The Stack Switch is very old technology that you don't need to bother with. Time was, the primary safety control was located there. Today just about all burners use a Cad Cell for sensing oil flame.
The sampling hole is in the correct location.
Number 8 smoke is unacceptable for operation and is most likely the cause of your 800°+ stack temperature. The soot lining the boiler surfaces is acting like insulation so the heat from the flame and flue gas is not getting through the soot to the water inside the cast iron boiler.
Your first step to getting this operational is to remove all the soot from inside the boiler flue passages. That usually involves a boiler brush that fits in between the sections to remove the soot,
and a vacuum cleaner designed to remove soot without letting the soot out the vacuum exhaust, into the home. A standard shop vac may not have a good enough filter for that task. Only after you get all the soot removed from inside the boiler can you start the burner and do the proper testing.
After the soot is gone, set the air adjustment to that which gives you the zero smoke reading, and see if the burner lights smoothly. Sometimes too much combustion air will cool the spark down so much that the oil does not ignite. If that is the case, then you need to close the air adjustment until. you get a smooth start. With the flame starting smoothly, test to smoke at this time. If you get a smoke spot higher than a #2, then you need to open the air adjustment one or 2 degrees at a time and do the smoke test. Keep going until you get a zero smoke spot.
Now the burner and combustion chamber is hot and will ignite easily the next time you try to start it. To be sure there is no delayed ignition problem. You will need to let the burner and chamber cool off for 30 minutes. Once you have a cold start condition, you can see if the burner ignites smoothly. If there is a delay in the ignition, then you do not have the proper electrode setting, the ignition transformer (or electronic ignition) is weak or going bad, or you have the incorrect nozzle specification of your system.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Thanks for the info.
I was hoping "soot" was at the root of the high stack temp, but, did not really want to get filthy again without being fairly sure.
The vac I have is a shop vac with a (claimed) HEPA filter and a "bag filter" in the air stream before the HEPA. I learned to use the bag also when doing some drywall sanding years ago and clogging the HEPA almost immediately.
I recently replaced the ignition transformer due to occasional "no flame" conditions. It was not the exact matching numbers but is a Beckett "replacement" and there have been no further "no flame" shutdowns.
Still, I went through this just a couple weeks ago and yet had the "sudden sooting" issue. There do not seem to be any air intake or exhaust pipe/chimney restrictions, so I am still at a loss as to why that might happen.0 -
Soot is unburned oil. That is carbon that does not have enough oxygen to form carbon dioxide. Insufficient oxygen is a result of not enough combustion air. That can happen because the air adjustment is not letting enough combustion air into the combustion chamber. Or it can have the proper adjustment but the burner is located in a confined space and the burner runs for a long cycle and deplete all the available oxygen in the space, then the exhaust starts to leave the draft control and find its way to the air intake on the burner. That combustion byproduct does not have much oxygen in it. So as that exhaust air enters the burner intake, the flame will get rich and form soot.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Since there is a fresh air intake, 4 inch smooth wall pipe with vacuum breaker, that seems to suggest there is a chimney or flue restriction?
No changes have been made to the unit other than the ignition module, filters and nozzles, going back, ten years or so. I think I have some of those cheap "bore scope" cameras around, when I remove the stack pipe to clean, I can poke on up the chimney to see what I can see.0 -
Some time ago we had to take a step back and look at a issue like this from a different point of view. In doing so, we found that it wasn't the boiler/oil burner.
The customer smelled the sulphur smell when using the water in the house and the smell would linger. We discovered that the water heater anode rod was used up causing the smell.
@joea99 Do you have a separate water heater? You might want to look there too.
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The well water does have an occasional sulfur odor. I installed a system to deal with that.
In this case, it is clearly a boiler issue, due to the soot and high stack temp, which cause an "plastic label" to get hot and discolor a bit, as well as the continued sooting problem.+
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So, I have looked at the Burnham specifications in the Beckett OEM guide. It appears that you have a welded flange so the 2° pitch is built into that weld. No worries there. Ihat would also eliminate the after drip problem because if you had that problem, the oil would go into the chamber as designed. (unless the boiler is not installed level and is pitched 3° or more from the back to the front)
Notes : (for the 3 section V8 water boiler)
- 9. Electrode settings of 1/4” above center of nozzle, 1/8” in front of nozzle and gap 5/32”.
- 16. With conic shroud, “Z” dimension is 1-3/4”.
The L1 head of the Beckett oil burner looks like this. and it must be installed on the nozzle adaptor so that it is pushed on as far as it can go as indicated by the Red arrow
According to the Beckett OEM Guide, the air adjustments are to be placed at S 10 (Yellow) and B 2 (Red) Which stands for the Side to be set pointing to the 10 and the band pointing to the 2. That is our starting position for commissioning the burner. If your settings are far off from that , then that could be the cause of your soot problem. And it is only a starting position. There are other reasons that you may need to change them but that is a good starting point.
One other air adjustment happens at the point where the nozzle assembly exits the burner housing. This is not one that not many burner technicians know about or how to use it. This is the tertiary air adjustment. That is adjusted by moving the nozzle assembly forward in order to allow additional combustion air flow past the restrictions of the flame retention head as shown with the blue arrows. This may be needed on larger GPH firing rates to get enough combustion air for complete combustion when the burner is installed in a 5 section or larger boiler that may fire rate over 1.25 GPH. In your case It will most likely be set so there is no additional tertiary air added. But knowing that it is there will prevent you from making a mistake in the air adjustments by accident. If you can help it, you should never need to loosen that 5/16” hex screw. But on sume burners I have found that it is often necessary to do that to remove the nozzle assembly. If that is the case I recommend that you scribe a line on the side of the burner to indicate the proper location when you reassemble the nozzle assembly.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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No changes have been made to the unit other than the ignition module, filters and nozzles, going back, ten years or so. I think I have some of those cheap "bore scope" cameras around, when I remove the stack pipe to clean, I can poke on up the chimney to see what I can see.
Something has changed from the last ten years of flawless operation to today. That change is recent and is the cause of your soot condition. It may not be related to your heater at all. I remember one customer that I installed a new mobil home furnace with a new Roof Jack. The Roof Jack is the mobil home version of a chimney thru the roof.
After 2 days I started to get a call from this customer about a peculiar tapping noise from the heater. It never happened when I was there, and I was there at least 6 times to try top solve the problem. We decided that he should look at the clock and record what time of day the noise happened. turns out that the noise happened about 6:05 AM on the day that the customer heard it the following day. The next day it happened at 6:08 AM. and this went on for one week with the time changing a few minutes later each day. Looking at the time of sunrise each day, it was clear to me that it had something to do with wildlife, and nothing top do with the heater.
So one morning I went to the home at that early hour and videotaped on my phone camera a woodpecker tapping at the brand new Roof Jack. When I showed the customer that I found the problem but I could not resolve the problem, he was satisfied that the problem was not related to anything I could fix.
I did suggest that he get a plastic Owl and perch it about 15 feet from the new exhaust vent and that solved the tapping noise. Woodpeckers don't like Owls
Another problem happened when a long time customer has new vinyl replacement windows installed in their home and the basement window that has a broken glass in it was replaces with a new window that was sealed tight. How could new windows cause the boiler to soot up? By cutting off the combustion air and converting that old leaky basement into a confined space.
There are many cases where something unrelated to the heater caused the heater to have a problem.
So you need to put on your thinking cap and go with Mr Peabody into the wayback machine and think about all the unrelated stuff you did to your home, and see if it can have a side effect that causes soot. Sometimes it is as simple as a tree growing over the chimney top that is causing an occasional down draft to start the first small sooting issue, and once the soot starts, over time… a second coating… then a third coating will end up become a self perpetuating blockage that will happen all of a sudden overnight. Today no problem perceived tomorrow a plugged boiler.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Thanks. You have gone to a lot of effort to assist me and I much appreciate it.
The unit is a V84Wsomething, with a .85 60A Delavan nozzle. But, I see the band and shutter settings that should serve as a starting point. They are/were far from that for reasons I do not recall, but, only minor changes have been made to the Band when going to smaller nozzles.
The only thing I can think of is that I did change electrodes and filter a week of so before changing the ignition module, in hope of a "cheap fix" for the occasional "no flame" shutdown. That is worth looking at again, even though I have not had any hint of no flame or delayed ignition. Except of course for the built in 10-15 second pre- and post purge.However, it might be a good time to go into what the flame should look like. Old timers and a couple younger types told me that "flickering fingers" were what to see and a orange, not white-ish, color was a good start.
The A vs B (hollow vs solid cone) has made me wonder about that advice.0 -
If the burner has the outdoor combustion air kit, then the air band and shutter are removed. The OP is dealing with a dial where a little turn is a lot of air.
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How do you control the amount of air, if the band and shutter are removed?
The outdoor air kit is only several bits of 4" rigid smooth wall steel duct, a vacuum breaker and an inlet "filter" that might keep out leaves and small rodents. That's it.0 -
@joea99 said: "The unit is a V84Wsomething, with a .85 60A Delavan nozzle"
There is no V84W in the book. Is it possible that the label is damaged and it actually reads V8HW Something? Can you take a photo of it and post it herein? That will help in the way we move forward.
Sometimes the original burner may be the wrong one. The burners are often packed in a separate box. If the loader at the supply house put the wrong oil burner box out for delivery when the boiler was shipped to your home, and the original installer did not pick up on that mistake, they can often get it to work properly by using the proper settings since the burners are often very similar from one boiler to the next with a small adjustment. You may have a burner with the AFG70MDAQM air tube combination when you should actually need a AFG70MMAQM air tube combination. Personally I have no problem with that mistake. With my experience I can make that work. The problem comes when someone without my experience tries to get it right, they may have a problem.
We need to take pictures of the stickers on the oil burner and pictures of the boiler model number plate. With this info I can get a better handle on your soot problem.
Photos of those two stickers would help a lot.
@joea99 Said "However, it might be a good time to go into what the flame should look like. Old timers and a couple younger types told me that "flickering fingers" were what to see and a orange, not white-ish, color was a good start.
The flickering fingers and the color orange is NOT a good oil flame from a flame retention oil burner
The flame retention oil burner will have a compact flame that is bright white when there is the right amount of excess air. This photo of a flame retention oil burner flame is what you are looking for.
There are no flickering flame ends. Orange flickering flame ends mean soot. A bluish sparkly finger tip flame is too much air. You want the bright white flame that a zero smoke will produce. Old timers that used to use that rule were looking at non-flame retention oil burners that needed 120% excess air or more to get a clean flame. Sometimes that was just so inefficient that putting up with a #2 or #3 smoke was acceptable. Not with your Beckett oil burner. You should be able to get a 11.5% CO2 from your Bacharach combustion bottle and a 400°stack temperature with a zero smoke
That would be about 50% excess air or less. Well within the capabilities of that boiler and burner combination.
hope this helps
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Here are the labels. The unit came pre-packaged from a now bought out reputable supplier.
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Awesome. that is an older V8 boiler from 2003. I believe this is the manual for your boiler V8 Manual. Let me know if you can't open the manual to verify it. I have worked on several of them and they are easy to get the adjustment out of kilter when you have that burner cover box in place. All the adjustments are under the cover, but you must do the testing with the cover in place. Makes it hard to adjust then test, especially with the Bacharach wet kit. Look inside the cover box to see if there is any insulation that is loose or missing. That could make a difference in operating the burner with that cover on it.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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That's in my area. I promise you I can figure this out and resolve it for you in one service call, if you are still having problems PM me.
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