Can I rough plumb a double vanity like this?
Many have been so helpful with my bigger discussion on my master bath plumbing, but now a quick question.. didn't want to bury it in the other thread since it can stand alone…
I have a need to put the main drain of a double vanity TOWARD (but not close enough to freeze or anything) an exterior wall. Could I plumb it similar to attached? I'd add a clean out JIC as the line still goes under the floor for about 7 feet before it ties into the 4" main stack.
Can I plumb it like this rather than the traditional double waste T? These are 1.5" PVC waste/vents to be clear.
THANK YOU!
Comments
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I don't do plumbing, so I don't understand the connected loop on the left side. Can't the top and bottom tee's for the left hand sink just be 90° els?
And I think the TY on the main vent is upside down.
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That loops on the ends are not needed. Raise the vent above flood rim and just run it up, it doesn't need to connect to the drain on the wall side.
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As the guys said.
- Bottom.of vent header needs to be a minimum of 6" Bove the Flood level rim of the fixtures.
- You need to dump waste in to a wye & 1/8th bend or a Long Turn Tee Wye. Sanitary Tees (Tee wyes) not code or good practice.
- The Circuit type venting you show is how we pipe commercial jobs. That's the way I would do it. Mad Dog
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You don't "need" the last loop vented portion, but I like the additional circulation and an accessible Clean out plug to hit the common waste run. Mad Dog
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Forgot the Cleanout on right lav...They are a Godsend when you've done alot of sewer & drain cleaning. Mad Dog
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Thank you all so much for your expert advice! I've reworked the model with:
- Colors - white is 1.5", light aqua is 2" with 1.5" inlets, dark aqua is 2"
- I made the waste dump a long turn
- added suggested clean outs above san-tees…
- Reverse the vent Tee Wye
- I put a sink in for reference - NOT in proper position. In reality, we're probably going to do a double console sink.. so not even sure the cleanouts will be easily accessible without taking off a counter or something, but still, might as well add them now..right?
How we lookin' ?
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One of my favorite subjects & discussions is dwv system piping.
I propose a single 1.5" waste arm could serve both lavs as long as they're within 6' of the stack vent.
The arm would connect to the stack with a ty; a vertical wye with a 45 here could cause the vent to be flooded.
The first lav would need a horizontal wye & 45.
This works as a combination waste & vent, not a wet vent because the 1.5" arm is a pipe size bigger than the lavs 1.25" drain....…
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Its all in the code. Follow the code, pass the inspection. This is the reason masters have to learn their trade. Get the illustrated national code book and its all there. You may think logic and reason works, but its all physics. The vent opening above the roof in freezing areas has to be large enough to prevent frost closure. They used to be small until nature told them how to it must be to work right. Just one example to not ignore the codes. By the way, people do die when plumbers fail to do it right. Especially with cross connections. But isn't that true in all trades? Many do not appreciate good craftsman who save lives by preventing hazards.
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Looks better.
"The waste dump" .Are you referring to the fitting that transitions from horizontal to vertical in aqua? If so then that fitting should be a tee-wye.
If this is going to be a vanity lav set up, then you can expose the clean out plug through the wall there. If it is a pedestal lavatory not so much, unless you redirect the plug to an accessible area, and maybe decoratively through the wall, and then make it readily accessible in the wall.
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This would be my vote as well. Much simpler. From the picture it looks like the far sink is less than three stud bays from the stack, well within reach of a 1-1/2" trap arm.
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Thank you again.. a couple of points of clarity…
- the 1.5" vent there will go up into a soffit in the ceiling, turn 90, then go about 9 ft until it ties into another 1.5" (from the shower), then up to the attic where they tie into a 4" main vent. Not sure if that matters to this discussion.
- So I still seem confused on which fitting to dump the 2" horizontal into the 2" vertical.. please see the fitting highlighted in orange… Then reference the 3 "floating" fittings in the foreground… 1, 2, 3.. .which should I use?
- And not knowing any better, I sort of agree with the clean out comment from @DCContrarian maybe? I don't think I will easily be able to get to them, and can always "slip out" the trap under each sink if really needed right?
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can you get below to come up between the two lavs?
Is the vertical pipe you show venting a fixture below? If so you cannot dump into it.
A CO is required to be the full size of the piping. If the sinks have 1-1/4" traps, they do not serve as a CO, technically speaking.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
@Javelin As far as installing a clean out . If you are installing a vanity lavatory in your bathroom and not a pedestal lav. as you have pictured, then a clean out is very easy to install. Just install it with a wye, with the plug on the branch or the run and then install the trap.
We have been installing them for a few years now. It helps very much with drain cleaning and is a better access point for rodding. In some areas doing this has become plumbing code. We have even installed clean outs on a vent when practical.
To eliminate the confusion about your drain piping.
Horizontal to vertical… A tee wye. So the orange fitting should be (number three.)
Vertical to horizontal… A wye and 45deg. or the Combo that you have pictured (number two.) Which means the lav drain second from the left needs a wye and 45deg. or the combo and not a sanitary tee wye.
You might want to pick up a book that shows the different types of DWV (drainage waist and vent) fittings and pipe. This will help to learn what they are called and what they are used for. If you don't do that little bit of homework, I'm afraid I might further confuse you and I don't want to do that. 😋
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Another option is a clean out tee. You can get a cover that screws to the plug also. These will usually fit in a 2x4 wall to easily cover them.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
The plumbing code and residential code are now online. You can read them online.
If you use a plain tee for the cleanout you can go down in to the waste or up in to the vent from it.
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We had to fill all out DWV plumbing to the highest point with water for the inspections. A threaded clean out tee, shown above, serves as the test plug access and a bi directional clean out, as @mattmia2 mentioned
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Almost there. I want a LTTY (Long Turn T Y aka Boston T Y) picking up the lav on the right. You can't dump it to a SANITARY TY that way. Mad Dog
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Wow.. thank you all again for all your help… I was away from this project for a while, but now, just started with the PVC. @Mad Dog_2 - I've adjusted the right lav into a long turn T.. I've attached a bunch of photos, with and without walls of the whole bathroom based on all the feedback I've received.. I THINK I'm in pretty good shape…
Anyone know anything about plumbing the drain for a steam generator?? :)
Thank you all again for all your help.. love learning and more importantly, love doing it right!
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Does the steamer have a zone valve on the drain to blow down after each cycle?
They can discharge water near boiling, it may be too hot for the piping material. See what your code requires as the steamer installation suggests. At the least you need an indirect waste connection. This is for a steam boiler, does a steamer for a shower follow the same requirement? Certainly based on discharge temperature.
You want a safety pan under it also.,
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
If the steamer is a Delta Steamist model with auto drain, the drain only opens after the water temperature has gone down to 100F. We talked about this before, no?
Horizontal to vertical drains use a tee. You don’t need a sweep fitting.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
I think it is a normally open zone valve when power is turned off or a power outage hits, the tank will discharge into the drain. Probably a rare but not unheard of event?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Thank you @Mad Dog_2 , @hot_rod , @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes and everyone else for your continued help! Allen, yes, I touched on the steam generator on another thread… Attached are photos of how I was PLANNING on doing it, but then you bring up the temp issue. In the Kohler drain pan instructions they say to "Use drain piping rated for 212°F (100°C)." - so now what? PVC is rated for 140 it seems.. What would I use? And even if I use copper or something, wouldn't I eventually need to put it into PVC SOMEWHERE along the line? Or is the thought that eventually if I have to it will have cooled down enough?
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The indirect waste will help, and you could run a section of no-hub cast iron for that particular section. I dump boiling water down my kitchen from time to time, after making pasta :) I think most people do. I imagine a small amount of water or steam is the question.
I had a sheetmetal shop customize those drain pans.
How much protection you want or what an inspector may require are the questions.
If it dumps after every cycle that should keep the trap primed, else you want a trap primer to prevent the trap from drying out.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Thanks hot_rod - do you think if I do a 2" no-hub cast iron trap with maybe a couple inches that would do it? I mean, I have to think the cast iron at room temp or cooler usually and being able to dissipate the heat (with the water that's already in the trap presumably) would be enough. I think I would get a 3" to 2" CI reducer to give me more of a "target"?
The other option is I could put a 3/4" copper discharge pipe in the wall and dumping outside through the exterior wall? Do you know how much pressure is involved with this drain? is it like a hose or just slow gravity fed?
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could something like this work with just using copper and running it all the way outside? to me it seems like it could introduce freezing issues and more.. just thinking of alternatives. I can't believe how popular steam showers are that they have all these plumbing requirements…
BTW - the pan I'm planning on using is right from Kohler - probably more expensive than some, but it's stainless steel and will fit the generator perfectly.
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Right? I think I can make it all work and not look too horrible.
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Sorry one more.. now I see this:
So it seems the drain is just used for cleaning really.. I think we're just talking about the more unlikely event of the T&P relief valve..
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I imagine it varies from brand to brand. I think Mr Steam flushes out the zone valve? If you flush out the steam head, prepare for some ugly water staining the tile grout.
Mr Steam cools down then gravity drains, see below
Mr Steam notes if the power goes out while the system is running, it will discharge boiling water , out that zone valve. So the cast trap will certainly buffer that, it will not be a huge amount of water.
The steamers can mount 50 feet or so away from the shower if that helps.
I highly recommend adding an appropriate water filter if your water doesn't meet the spec. Hard water makes for ugly steam deposits and takes out elements quickly.
I saw a Mr Steam on a trophy home last winter, it had a nice packaged fill system. Looks like some after market company builds a filtration system. Perhaps a DI cartridge, and maybe a carbon filter to take chlorine smell out if you are on public water? A cotton wick filter is not adequate.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Dissolved solids in the water are a problem. This was a commercial electric steam boiler at a gym that we service.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
Here is an example of a filtration for a steamer. Looks to have a DI cartridge then another to buffer that low DI ph back up. That will eliminate element scale issues.
As elements scale, performance drops and enough scale will cause the element to burn out.Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0
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