Rattling Taco 221 fix: Replacement from new valve vs. rebuild kit?
- Taco 221 Univ. Flow-Check was on the last (original?) system.
- New system installed immediately prior to current home owner, ca. 5 yrs old.
- Taco 221 produces significant rattling noise under the living room/master bedroom
- [Backordered] Rebuild kit $93 (https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-221-021RP-Replacement-Cap-Disc-Assemby-for-Taco-Flo-Chek-221)
- [Available] New 221 $84 (https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-221-6-1-1-4-Universal-CI-Taco-Flo-Chek-1992000-p)
Why would I not just buy a new 221 for $84 and that I can have this week and swap the parts out rather than wait weeks for a kit that costs $10 more? I can't understand how Taco doesn't see people wanting to this exact thing and then throw the CI in the scrap pile but perhaps I'm missing something?
Comments
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Also, considering that there's one zone in a ranch house, do I even need one of these?
The new Grundfos UPS15-58FC pump includes a check valve, perhaps obviating the need for the Flo-Check in the system at all. Beyond that, I don't see why I should even care if there's gravity flow in a single zone system.
Can I just cut this out and borrow a Propress?
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FloCheck valves ofter rattle as a result of their design. And I agree with you that the repair parts are often more expensive that the fully assembled part. Isn't that true in just about any field of mechanical equipment. I remember that someone did a study back in 1980 that added up the total cost of all the parts that are included in a 1980 Chevrolet Impala by the retail price purchased at a parts counter at a midwest Chevrolet Dealer. I believe the parts actually cost 4 times more than the completely assembled car. And add to that the fact that you would only have a warehouse full of parts that you could not even drive.
I would purchase a complete valve assembly, and remove the parts, in order to install them in the existing housing. But I would not be surprised if the replacement cartridge also rattled. You may need to check the flow rate of the system to see if you can get the rattling to stop before I went to the trouble of replacing the cartridge. See if there is AIR in the system, see if slowing the flow rate will help. You may be able to get the result you want without making guess work repairs. (notice my tag line below. I would ask my technicians this questins often)
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Thanks, yeah, I'm looking into the the pump speed, but whoever installed the pump gave zero concern about anyone ever needing to access the service panel again. Having removed it, the internals do not look at all like what the Grundfos manual says as there are not dip switches, just a single 3-speed select lever for control. I came back upstairs to call for heat and am about to go and see what happens as I change pump speed. I have no desire to open this system up if I don't have to.
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if the circ has a check, I don’t see why you need the flo check?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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Follow-up
- Did the rattling only start after the pump was replaced?
- Does the boiler also make domestic Hot Water using a tankless coil inside the boiler?
- Why was the circulator with a Internal Flo Check (IFC) selected for the replacement?
- I believe that pump has 3 speeds, did you try all the different speeds?
If you have a boiler that maintains a minimum temperature, you may need to have that 221 on the supply side to stop gravity flow (sometimes called Ghost flow) from taking place. Ghost flow is where hotter lighter water will rise up a pipe and heat the first few radiators on a system, while colder denser water from the radiators travels back down the same pipe. A Flow Check will keep that from happening.
If your boiler used to have a DHW coil that is no longer used, or the replacement boiler from 5 years ago replaced a boiler that used to have a coil, and the replacement boiler does not have a coil, then you do not need a FloCheck valve.
A little more information is needed before anyone recommends removing the valve completely.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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The pump manual title page states, "Circulator pumps incorporating variable speed control (VS) with
date code 0838 or higher" so must not be >= 0838… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Because a picture's worth 1k words, here's 3 of the pump with the Flo-check in one of them:
https://imgur.com/a/FhyPcuD0 -
- Rattling and pump replacement: unknown. Current resident moved in after the old system was replaced.
- Negative.
- Unknown, but I cynically assume because that's just what Burns and McBride used for standard installations.
- High and medium rattle. Low rattles significantly less.
I don't think there was ever a DHW coil and here in WIlmington, DE these aren't common. If I had to guess, no, there was never a DHW coil as part of the hydronic system. The standard gas hot water tank is pushing 12 years old so that was in place when the radiator was replaced. There is an abandoned condensate pump and there was B-pipe going to the stack so I'm assuming the previous HW tank was a condescending one.
I just looked at the permit: "REPLACEMENT, HVAC UNIT(S) LIKE FOR LIKE REMOVE EXISTING GAS BOILER INSTALL NEW GAS BOILER" was issued 2016/11/17 so it's a bit older than 5 years, but still a modern system. The hot water tank has a manufacture date of 2012.05.31 so it was [probably] replaced before 2016.11. (Interestingly, there's no permit on the parcel view for the HW tank. I don't think that it was installed by the previous HO as the sweat joints look professional.)
As for how things are arranged… the upper pipe coming out of the radiator—supply I assume—goes to the expansion tank then the pump then to some other things including a take off before the Flo-Check for the addition, then to the Flo-Check.EDIT: the wrong date for the HW tank was listed as 2021 instead of 2012.
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OK so lets say you do not need the 221. you can try this. there is a thumb screw that will place the Taco 221 in the open position. (It is currently in the Automatic position). Turn the screw CCW until it stops. That will be in the full open position. if you do not over heat then you haver solved the rattle problem. If the Taco 221 leaks a little around the thumb screw you can try to tighten the packing nut to stop the leak.
Hope this gets you where you need to be.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I was just writing this as your reply came in…
Oh, the adjustment screw at the top does turn, but doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on noise. Are these captive screws?I'm assuming that they can break like anything else and not actually be doing anything but rotate the broken shaft.
I'll go try again to back it all the way out, anti-clockwise as the Germans like to say.
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Here is an inside look so you can see it in your minds eye, without getting wet from taking it apart.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
0
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