Does this look like it's plumbed correctly?

tedlackner · November 23

I'm in a new-to-me home with radiant heating, both in slab and staple-up. I've only had forced hot air before, though I am somewhat familiar with family members' hydronic systems, with 1or 2 zones. I have 8, including several non functioning zone valves.

In looking to see what I have to do to isolate (as best I can) the Taco 571-2 ZVs to replace the guts, I was staring at the piping, and it doesn't resemble the simple configuration I've seen in homes with hydronic baseboard.

I've heard of closely spaced tees, but never had a reason to try to learn about and understand them. Might that be what I'm looking at? The concept of "uncontrolled" mixing of the supply from the (instantaneous gas) boiler with the returning cooler water somehow seems wrong. But I suspect what's wrong is my understanding.

Thanks in advance!

neilc · November 23

those are close spaced,

assume flow in the primary is down in that shot,

why not post another view, wide angle, so we see the whole shabang, boiler and other circs, and ???

DCContrarian · November 23

The two closely spaced tees in series is odd. I won't say it's wrong per se, but the second one is getting colder water when the first one is running.

I'm not crazy about the galvanized for the expansion tank but that's being picky.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · November 23

The Taco 009 is a high-head pump. The Taco 0013 is a high-head, high-volume pump. I hope the application is correct. What are they pumping to? Radiant? Radiators? Fan coils? Small copper tubing in an Eichler?

tedlackner · November 24

They are pumping to pex coils, some set in the basement slab, others staple-up beneath the first and second floors. Total heated sq. ft. is ~3300. I'm in a part of NY where the heating design temp is generally -1F.

The ZVs are on the opposite wall. Alan, I hadn't looked at the actual connections 'til you asked. The 0013 supplies the manifold with two zone valves, serving areas in the basement first floor. The 009 serves first and second floors. Based on what you said about volume, the roles appear to be backwards. I also believe I have several ZVs frozen in place. At least one open, at least one closed.

Thanks guys!

.

EdTheHeaterMan · November 24

other than the wrong air remover the piping looks like it is installed properly. but there is more infromation needed in order to diagnose a problem.

Is there a particular problem you are having that we can address? Air in the system, noisy operation, no heat or not enough heat is some or all locations?

Tell us what you are looking for.

EDIT: I have a feeling that some pipe sizes are too small, But more info needed to tell if that is the problem.

EdTheHeaterMan · November 24

But that is pretty obvious if you take a close look!

hot_rod · November 24

that 0013 seems like a lot of pump? What does that set of tees supply?

tedlackner · November 24

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1822182#Comment_1822182

It supplies the manifold on the left (with two ZVs, serving lower levels) in the pic above.

The 009 supplies the manifold on the right, with 6 ZVs, serving upper levels.

The problems are multiple in this new to me house. The previous owner is a contractor who lived here for 7 years. I understand the house was vacant for several years after illness/death of original owner. It's on a lake, was built in 2007. While built as a year round house, actual use was originally as a summer home on lake.

When a thermostat in one location calls for heat, heat "appears" elsewhere. I thought I had a wiring problem for the ZVs. After exploring with my IR thermometer (reason for tape on the copper) and multimeter, I have concluded that the two Zvs on the left manifold are frozen (corroded) in place…one open, one closed. That's why they are disconnected—I've been looking at the condition (poor) and testing effect of removal.

I am trying to identify the root cause of my problems, and want to get to real answers in less than 3.5 years! So I can actually fix them! I'm trying to start at square 1 and confirm that things are correctly installed. I don't think the current boiler is the original, so I had no confidence in the "big picture". With Ed's evaluation above, I believe I can accept the basic install as functional, and move on to components.

And I have set aside for now the issue that the air to air heat pump for the first floor produces no warmth!

As of now, it appears I need to overhaul or replace most of the ZVs. They are Taco 571-2's. Based on Taco's counterintuitive pricing, I expect to buy new ZVs and transplant the guts and motor. Any tips on isolating/draining and bringing back online? I assume I don't want to push air through hundreds of feet of heating loops to have it expelled at the scoop, but how do I get the water to flow the other way?

Thank you all so much for taking the time to share your expertise.

EdTheHeaterMan · November 24

Taco Zone valves do not get stuck as a rule. Internal corrosion must be really bad. What is the pH of the boiler water?

I have tested that vavle body with a large offset pliers to see if I could open it. Or try a C-clamp (the screw type) will also have enough force to exercise that valve. Once the valve is operating you can install the valve head and see if the manual lever will open and close the valve.

I have a feeling that your piping is not the correct size. We need to know the BTU requirements of each zone. Perhaps the original 007 pumps were insufficient because the piping is too small, the easy fix was the get a more powerful pump. This book is an easy read for pipe sizing and zoning principles.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/108119-Reference%20Guide.pdf

This helps you to understand what is supposed to happen and will give you a basis for asking the right questions to get your problem(s) solved.

hot_rod · November 24

You might consider upgrading to a less power hungry zone valve.

8 of those type of valves is 1.1X8= 8.8A. And they draw power every 17 seconds or so when open.

Newer spring return, thermal actuated, or electronic ball valve type zone valves may be a better option.

I would also get some hydronic cleaner and run it for a few days and flush out whatever is clogging or causing those valves to sieze.

Joe Mattiello · November 24

if you’re having an issue with ZV not opening on demand, first rule out the thermostat by removing thermostat and tie the two wires together to validate demand. If it’s the ZV, you can replace the head which is more likely to fail, as opposed to valve body.
the folks at Taco tech support can help further diagnose the problem for sure. Call 401-942-8000 and ask for tech support.

I’m sure the system dynamics are fine, as it’s been installed prior to you inheriting the system. Hopefully this helps.

tedlackner · November 25

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1822340#Comment_1822340

They are somewhat screened from view in the pics, but I have a ZVC404 with a ZVC406EXP. Taco tells me they make troubleshooting easier because I can rely on the LEDs telling me I have "tstat call" and "valve open".

Does this look like it's plumbed correctly?

Comments

Categories