Determining main vent location
Hello all, fascinated by the inner workings of steam heat and all the information this board has to offer. I took the building over just a few months ago and currently, I'm faced with uneven heating and lack there of in certain rads of my 7 unit building. The boiler is new but there weren't main vents installed when the system was replaced. I'm faced with the task of adding main vents but im unsure of the best location. For starters, I have two first floor units that carry the rads in the ceiling (the basement sits higher than these apartments). The end of those mains (two different mains) pipes directly into ceiling rads. See attached photos. Could I tap into the 90, add a nipple and place a gorton #2? I'll gladly provide more pictures if required, just starting conversation. Thank you all.
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Does the building have a single or two pipe system for other radiator connections?
What is the piping configuration on the other side of the wall of these ceiling rads?
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the building has a two pipe system for all other rad connections. attached are some more photos of how the main is piped back to the boiler. also is a pic of the boiler itself and a crude drawing on how the mains feed elsewhere in the basement. thanks in advance
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pic labeled #1 is the start of the piping on the other side of the wall
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Do all of the 2 pipe rads have a steam trap on the outlet?
How does the air get out of the ceiling rads? Do they have traps we don't see?
Or does anyone here think they could be condenser rad for the return?
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the ceiling rads and all other rads in the building are tapped with 1/8 angle vents. i could be mistaken by the two pipe system so ill provide you a picture of how the piping looks coming into the radiators on the 2nd floor and so on.
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Is this a Paul system?
I just watched a video that mentioned that type system.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I'm not familiar with the paul system. Yes, that is the same radiator. I believe they are both are 1-1/2" valves.
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That was definitely a Paul system- good eye, @EdTheHeaterMan .
@grantsweatshirt , the Paul system used a jet-type exhauster to pull air from the radiators. Instead of a regular air vent, a special Paul vent was used which connected to these exhauster lines. In the rad pic you posted, you can see a small pipe coming up just to the left of the rad. That was the exhauster connection.
Hoffman still sells rad vents for this system:
The Paul system is covered in chapter 15 of @DanHolohan 's excellent book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating":
Also, to the left of the rad in that pic are three riser pipes coming up from the floor. They are, in order of decreasing size: Steam, Return, Air Line (exhauster).
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Thanks for the reply steamhead. Does every rad need an exhauster, or just where I'm having trouble getting the heat. I took this pic next to one of the ceiling rads in the street level apartment. It appears that airline is just left open or they did away with all the exhausters because when I trace that line back to the furnace it just goes to nothing.
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Based on the section about the paul system in the lost art of steam heat I'd say previous owners who knows who essentially converted the building to a one pipe system with standard air vents.
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Thanks Steamhead. But that is only if that is the same radiator in both pictures. Without a pic of a radiator with both ends in the same photo, I am only guessing. and asking the question IF….
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I should have tagged you Ed sorry but I did answer your question it is the same radiatorI
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This is the video where is saw the two pipe with an air vent that replaced the Paul system in the Dakota In NYC. Look at time stamp 22:10 on this video to see your system.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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@EdTheHeaterMan I believe you are right on the paul system.
Based on the section about the paul system in the lost art of steam heat by dan I'd say previous owners who knows who essentially converted the building to a one pipe system with standard air vents. is there any way to balance this system without converting back. it seams any remnants of the paul system have been stripped and no longer.
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Not sure of what to do. I know that @DanHolohan would be more familiar with this. I have never actually worked on one. Perhaps another Wallie might help
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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very good thanks again @EdTheHeaterMan
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