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weird noises from circulator pump.

Bibbop
Bibbop Member Posts: 3
edited October 15 in Oil Heating

Hello to all,

(Weil-Mclain Gold oil units, Taco 007-f7 circulator, Fuelsmart Hydrostat and a Taco 329-3 pressure reducer set at 12psi)

As a preparation for the cold I tested the heat after being off all summer.

The pressure safety valve seemed to have opened up and released water in my basement.

Soon after when checking the status on the pressure seems to climb up to 26psi as soon as the burner starts. 12 psi steady with no burner.

InitInitial thought was the expansion tank yet no water on the valve and measured 12psi on the gouge attached.

My pressure safety valve is now on constant leak. (Even on low psi on the system)

Took apart the circulator pump (cartridge style) it does seem quite rundown yet no clog or much debris. It does make quite the noise now yet it not steady. The noise repeat itself every now and then. (See video) I'm thinking it's air in the system?

Hydrostat is set on 180HL off(LL) and ECO-2 yet I still get as high as 198 when wheating the house. (Not sure why)

My thoughts were to get a new pressure safety valve (30psi). A new expansion tank (#30) as they are both quite old.

Prices for the cartridge vs the circulator pump unit whole are not that far so am considering a new circulator pump.

All this will not solve my issue if indeed I have air running through. (Noises at the pump).

  • This unit is only used for house heating via floor radiators. No air release anywhere except one Taco unit close to the expansion tank.

Quite long of a post but tried to cover all ends for proper diagnosis help. Thanks to all you amazing people In this group.

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,638

    Perhaps a little more information. Other than that, maybe it is trying to tell you something.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Bibbop
    Bibbop Member Posts: 3

    Sorry EdTheHeaterMan. With the kids coming in and my phone doing it's own clicks it went to post without my full input. Updated all the info and added some pics and a video Inside the zip file.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,638
    edited October 15

    The Circulator pump is located in the best place on that boiler to vent air from the system. The built in air scoop of that boiler is at the hottest location and the pump is causing the lowest pressure in the system to happen in the same place.

    When you get the new expansion tank, you want to add a few valves to make servicing and testing the tank easier in the future. See illustration below:

    In order to get a proper air pressure reading on your diaphragm type expansion tank, you must have no water in the tank and it must be disconnected from the boiler pressure. If you have 26 PSI boiler pressure connected to that expansion tank. The water in the boiler will enter the tank and compress that air to the same pressure as the boiler pressure.

    Your Expansion tank may just be low on air pressure. If that is the case you will have some water in the tank at 12 PSI when in fact you should have no water in the tank at 12 PSI pressure.


    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Bibbop
    Bibbop Member Posts: 3

    Hi EdTheHeaterMan

    Thanks for the great illustrations. Got the relief valve and the expansion tank replaced. Also added a backflow preventer. (Never had one before.)

    Seem's like I'm left with air in the system. Especially in the zone runs (two in number) looking at the picture attached how would you recommend draining all the air?

    A - is the main shutoff for the feed from the cold line.

    B - is a shutoff ball for the zones.

    C - is the shutoff valve for the return from the zones. This one have a drain option on the zone side.

    D - not sure what's this one. Just a drain on the bottom of the unit. (A hose is attached to it.

    1, and 2 are the two zones I have. It's a closed zone controller with a manual override to open.

    Water seems to be in good pressure and no leaks now. Did not start it yet. The expansion tank is removed was full of water and extremely heavy.

    Ocean i move all the copper to pex-a in will also follow your great advise and add the attachments for the tank.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,638

    Are all your radiators the copper tube type with the aluminum fin?  If yes, and there in a series loop, then you can purge the air from them in the basement.  

    1. Place a garden hose on the purge station hose bib opening A and direct the other end to a floor drain, laundry tub or outside.
    2. Turn the power off to the boiler B and make sure the zone valves are all closed.  We will be using the zone valves to isolate each zone one at a time.
    3. Close the isolation valve on the purge station  C
    4. Observe the gauge pressure on the boiler D  Keep it at 25 PSI or below during this purge.
    5. Open the boiler fill tab E to allow for fast filling.  Refer to #4 above and close that tab if the pressure rises above 25 PSI.
    6. Open one of the zone F, G or H valve manual levers to allow water into that zone only.  Leave the other 2 manual levers closed at this time 
    7. Open the purge station valve A and let the water force purge the air from the zone.   
    8. If the boiler pressure drops below 15 PSI during a purge, then close valve A and allow the boiler pressure D to increase to 25 PSI. 
    9. Once you reach 25 PSI on the boiler gauge, then open valve A again. wait about 1 minute after the last bubble of air leaves the hose.
    10. Repeat steps 6 thru 9 on each zone valve with the next valve open while the other two are closed.  
    11. Once you have all the air purged then release the fast fill tab E and close valve A.
    12. Place all the zone valves F, G, and H manual handles in the automatic position.
    13. Open valve C
    14. Turn on the boiler switch B and operate one of the zone valves by setting the thermostat higher that the room temperature by 5°F 
    15. See if the water circulates the heat across the entire zone all the way back to the boiler return.  
    16. Repeat step 15 on the other two zones.  If any of the zones do not circulate the hot water from the supply back to the return then you must purge the air from that zone.  

    Notes.

    1. The time for a thermostat to open a zone valve may be as much as 2 minutes before the valve is completely open and the burner and pump start to circulate any water.  
    2. The time it takes to heat up the water in the boiler to know if it is circulating may take 5 to 8 minutes before you have hot enough water to tell if the first zone is circulating properly.  
    3. The time it takes to get the hot boiler water to circulate each zone may be as long as 3 minutes depending on the length of the pi[ping on that loop.

    What I’m saying is after you believe you have all the air out, it will take time to verify that it is in fact working properly. So do not get frustrated if the water takes too long to heat up.  The only way to tell if a zone is not air free is if the boiler temperature is above 150° leaving and you are not getting at least 130° returning and that may take 15 minutes on the first zone tested.  


    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Bibbop