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Need help with replacing a taller 1-1/4" angle shutoff valve

ryancab
ryancab Member Posts: 2
in Strictly Steam

Hi!

I have a one-pipe steam radiator system in my 1913 house and I'm a first-time home owner and know very little about doing stuff to maintain a house, but I'm learning! But I will admit I seriously lack confidence. 😥

Anyway. Multiple angle shutoff valves have minor leaking issues in the house, so I'm slowly attempting to tackle one at a time. One of them was leaking under the packing nut and I was able to buy some graphite packing and get that to stop! Yay!

The next radiator I wanted to fix is by the entry. (See photo.)

IMG_1631.jpg

It's leaking a little bit from the packing nut area, but the packing nut itself is fused in place, so I can't repack it like I did the first radiator. My wife wants me to remove the radiator anyway so that she can clean and paint the wall behind it, so I was just going to try and replace the entire angle shutoff valve. (The union nut won't budge either.)

In preparation, I watched these videos from this NYC plumber named Bob. I thought they were very good and they've given me a little bit of confidence to try this.

While I was doing research in preparation, I started looking for replacement angle shutoff valves. I don't mind paying good money for a good product, so as I was looking for brand recommendations on the site, I came across this thread where the OP ran into a problem with the height of his radiator compared to the height of his new angle shutoff valve (as measured from the bottom of the valve to the middle of the angle opening).

I measured my current angle shutoff valve from the bottom to the middle of the angle opening and it measures 2". The tallest valve I could find was the 1-3/4", which is the one the OP of the other thread used, which is Model R-100A made by Marsh Steam. (I'm assuming that I need a 1-1/4" valve, as my inlet pipe coming up from the floor measure 1-5/8" outer diameter, correct?) All other angle valves (where I could find/calculate the measurement) ended up being about 1-7/16" (1.4375").

What's the best thing to do here? 😕 Obviously, I'd love to find an angle valve that's the right height, if possible. Ideas I saw in that other thread were:

  • Add a 1" extension.
    • This would push my angle opening up to 2-7/16". I could then raise up the radiator, but I don't want to end up with a "high heeled radiator" like seen here.
  • Cut down the feet of the radiator.
    • I really, really don't want to do that.
  • See if there's any "play" regarding the inlet pipe coming up from the floor.
    • I checked and I can pull the inlet pipe up just a little bit, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get the full 1/4" out of it, especially while trying to yank it up and get the radiator in place and get the union nut properly threaded on, all at the same time. 🙁 Maybe I can manage to pull it up, wedge a block of wood of the proper height under the small edge of the angle valve to hold it in place while I scoot the radiator into place and thread on the union nut? Seems like a long shot, though.

Any other ideas?

Thank you all so much!

Ryan

Comments

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,445
    edited August 18

    I’d be inclined to rebuilt existing valve. What size wrench did you use when trying to remove the packing nut? Looks in good shape; I’d use a 18” tapered handle crescent wrench on it to break it loose. Will also work to break loose the unions especially if you have a cheater pipe you can slip over the end of the tapered handle.

    If you decide to replace the valve you will also need to remove the old spud side of the unions as the parts come as a matched set with new valve.
    I’ve attached a picture of a spud wrench in use installing a valve stem.

    PS: I took a look at the links you provided; Bob the Plumber deserved kudos for putting together well produced videos

    IMG_4187.jpeg

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,279

    If you do change the valve you will have to change the spud that is screwed into the radiator.

    The spud wrench PC showed you will most likely not unscrew the old spud. You then have to cut and chisel it out for the replacement.

    IIWM, I would apply a very small amount of PB blaster to the stem of the valve and rotate the handle a little. Also a spray on the union nut. The union nut has been wrenched on with a pipe wrench and has layers of paint. The corners of the union may be rounded so that a proper wrench may not grip.

    If you can clean the flats up with a flat file you might get the adjustable Crescent wrench to fit to at least break it free. You would pull up on the wrench to unscrew the union nut.

    Once the rad is removed (keep the painter/cleaner happy….gain some points 😊) you can see what lift play you have with the old valve.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,952
    edited August 18

    There usually is some play in the pipe, especially if it is only half an inch or so. You can change the nipple to a different length in most cases. Can you see the pipe in a basement underneath?

    With the right tools you should be able to rebuild the valve. Make sure the stem isn't backed all the way out and binding on the packing.

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,445
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808204#Comment_1808204

    As @JUGHNE said, sometime the internal lugs will shear off when using the spud wrench.
    I’ve found that cutting the union nut off and then using a pipe wrench is the way to deal with a problem union spud.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,485

    Replacing the valve and spud is not easy it is likely frozen on but it can be done. Rebuilding the old valve is questionable. It is very likely you can pull the pipe up 1/4"

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,279

    For me the spud wrench sheared off the internal lugs about 80% of the time.

    As PC said cut the end of the spud off to remove the nut. Then I would find a bolt that fit tightly into the spud to avoid crushing or egg shaping the brass spud. (This works better if the internal lugs are gone) Then lay the rad down and you can use a pipe wrench with good jaws making a 3 point contact. Arrange your wrench so you push down against the rad itself.

    These are top heavy once disconnected and can do damage to you or your house.

    PC7060
  • ryancab
    ryancab Member Posts: 2

    Thanks for the replies, everyone!

    After thinking all your info over out loud to my wife (as she sat there looking bored), I think I'll first try the suggestion from @JUGHNE about using a tiny bit of PB Blaster (don't want PB Blaster actually in my heating system pipes) on the packing nut and the union nut to try again and see if I can break them loose. If that works, that would be ideal.

    If that doesn't work, I'll just have to replace the angle shutoff valve and the spud. My best bet is to go with the Marsh R-100A and try lifting the inlet pipe up the 1/4" I need (assuming the Marsh valve threads on to the same exact depth as the current valve). I do have access to the inlet pipe from the basement and my wife had a good idea. She said that instead of trying to pull the inlet pipe up from above, just push it up a little with a jack from below, which would work well, I think.

    If I do end up replacing the angle valve altogether, I feel that the videos I had linked previously (from Bob the NYC plumber) are a good procedure to follow. I would carefully cut the old angle valve, cut the union nut, and carefully cut out the old spud. I wouldn't try to unscrew any of them because if I end up going this route, it means the PB Blaster didn't work and everything is steam fused together anyway. 🙂

    Thanks again, everyone, for all the help! I'll let you know how it goes. Hopefully I'll maintain the courage to move forward with all this sooner, rather than later. 😃

    Ryan

    p.s. - Thanks @JUGHNE also for the tip/warning that the radiators are top heavy once disconnected. I've never disconnected one before, so I'll do my best to try and be ready and not caught off guard. Thank you!

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,952

    the valve and union nut are brass, it should unscrew with the right wrench.

  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,321

    The easiest way to do this by far is to remove the packing nut. Soak it with Kroil or Blaster every day for a week, tapping on the flats with a hammer every time you walk by it. Then as PC7060 says, attack the nut with a good Crescent wrench. He suggests a tapered handle wrench because it can be extended with a pipe. Sung the wrench on it and tap the handle with a hammer. If it doesn't loosen try again later. It's all brass so it will come apart. Don't kill it; don't round over the corners.

    Replacing the valve isn't a hard job, but it's a lot to take on for the inexperienced. Way easier to repack the old one. Good luck and let us know how it comes out.

  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 977

    I would repair the existing valve, Use the PB blaster or similar item many times over 2-3 days, on the packing nut. Letting it soak in is your best friend. That stuff does not work instantaneously. Removing that union spud can be challenging even for an expert. I would use a spud wrench and a small 6" or 8" Ridgid pipe wrench with a cheater of course, after you remove the union nut. Turn both the spud wrench and the pipe wrench, at the same time. If you do the work with the radiator standing upright have someone hold the rad so it doesn't move. All the guys above have done this many times and every time was challenging.

  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 378

    I see that you have made an attempt at loosening the union nut.

    This may not be obvious to you but you should be pulling UPWARD on the union nut to disengage it. There is not a lot of force on these nuts and it typically takes almost no force on a 12" pipe wrench to loosen it………………unless you are going the wrong direction (down).

    JUGHNEBobC

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