Help- Near-Boiler Piping Gut Check
Hello all, I’m new to maintaining a steam boiler for a multi-unit residential building in the Midwest. We are replacing a 30-year old Weil McLain LGB steam boiler with a Peerless 64 steam boiler since we have low-ish ceilings. The install just began today. There are some differences from the Peerless installation manual, such as no unions from the risers and no pipe flange on header. I also read in a previous post something about the importance of swing joints so that the boiler doesn’t fail. The contractor said that the 2 sets of elbows in the drop header serve as swing joints. This is such a significant capital expense for us, that I want to ensure the boiler doesn’t fail in a few short years. And so I am reaching out to this expert community… do you see any detrimental issues with this near-boiler piping? Is there enough swing joints to prevent premature failure in the steam boiler? I would very much appreciate your expert opinions. Thank you for your time.
Comments
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The unions and flanges are needed to screw the pipes together. Since the pipes are welded together, the need for unions is eliminated. But you can not take them apart in the future if needed. There are no unwelding wrenches that I knoe of… LOL. just saws and cutting tourches.
But the drop header makes two 90° turns that will allow for swing joint action between the header and the boiler sections. It is actually a better swing joint.
Looks good to me
No king valve though.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Hate to find one of those risers is leaking. but it looks like whoever is doing it knows what they are doing. The drop header is one way of getting more clearance above the boiler in addition to it giving the water more opportunity to fall out of the steam.
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I would put flanges on the risers coming out of the boiler. Never know if a section is gonna fail. They don't make them like they use too.
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Can always cut out the pipe and replace it with 2 pipes and a union or flanges if you have to, but they would be nice.
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What model is this Peerless?
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
If you have to replace a section, you cut the riser and throw a couple of weld flanges in. Not an issue. They contractor looks like he know what he is doing…..so far at least. he even pitched the header which I don't believe in
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Looks similar to the method we use when our welder is on the job. We do use flanges on each one of the risers out of the boiler. Nice job on the fish-mouths.
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I really appreciate this community’s feedback-thank you.
Also different from the Peerless diagram (3rd pic attached) is the approx 10” part of the header that extends to the left, further than the left riser. Will that cause any kind of issue with the steam going in different directions from the riser to the header?
But as far as my initial concern, if I understand the feedback, the 2 elbows comprising the drop header serve as the necessary swing joints to avoid premature boiler cracking/failure.
I’m not really pleased with the prospect of increased repair costs if there is a need to repair anything anywhere from the boiler up to the supply. Besides that potential future cost, though, it sounds like there is nothing wrong with welding joints, per se, that would result in a shorter useful life of boiler. Am I understanding that right?
Would the welding method invalidate manufacturer’s warranty if manufacturer’s manual (in 3rd picture) shows pipe fitting method in their installation manual?
Steamhead, to answer your question, this is a Peerless 64-12.0 -
Who wants to have to deal with a welder after the fact when you can do it now. Boiler room is open for business
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Nothing wrong with that pipe extending to the left. That is unvented, so no Steam will enter that part. Doesn't need to be there but no harm no foul.
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The reasons you'd need to disassemble the risers don't usually happen so I wouldn't worry about it.
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@rexmgmt , the manual for that boiler is here:
The horizontal portion of the header should be 4", according to the manual. Is it? If not, the boiler will make wet steam, and the system will run inefficiently.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
Hi Steamhead, thanks for asking. Yes, the horizontal header pipe is stamped 4” NPS Sch 40.
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Peerless shows no swing joints on there header. With the drop header you have swing joints so you are better off than what the factory shows. Your fine leave it as is.
My only concern with what is shown in the pictures so far is that I don't see any pipe hangers on the header. The header needs some hangers to take the weight of the header off the boiler.
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The drawings in manuals are suggested , miminum best practices. Variations & improvements are and are at the installer's discretion. You don't wanna break a good installers' shoes. They are doing a very good job. Hangars can & should be added, but can be done anytime. Mad Dog
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Thank you all again for your feedback!
As a newbie, my reference point is the manufacturers’ instructions. And so I really appreciate this community’s expert body of knowledge to help me understand whether the variations are “friend or foe”…improvements or detriments.Hangers sound like a great idea given that a couple guys had to hold the pipes in place for welding. Where would you put them … on the horizontal header, or at the top of the 2 risers before they drop?
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I would wait until the job is finished and ask of those pipes need support. You may find that the contractor will already have them included in the project.
If you dont gat a positive response, and the completed job does not include the supports, then I might place three supports like this.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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@rexmgmt Post more pics later as the job gets closer to being finished.
So gar it looks great. Will they be insulating?
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The hangers should be as @EdTheHeaterMan suggested, on the header not on the boiler risers.
If they were going to put hangers up they would have done so by now. Hangers usually go up before the pipe…..especially big pipe.
If they can't hang from overhead due to obstacles they can be supported from the floor
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