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Primary Control on Oil Fired Burner - Is it bad? Other things to check?

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HandyFS
HandyFS Member Posts: 108
edited October 2022 in THE MAIN WALL
I'm trying to get a boiler to fire for the heating season and can use some help understanding the primary control, and what to expect. When the system has power, the primary control shows no LED lit up. Is this normal for this older primary control? If I press the top red button for 1 second nothing changes and no lights blink. However, if I hold it down it will go through the red/amber led blinking sequence to get it out of latch up mode. However, after that sequence, it goes back to no lights on, and it never attempts to fire. This is a new property and machine so I have little experience or history with this setup.

Oil Burner Primary Control Part Number 643-900-317, which is also Model Number 60200-02 Rev A. From what I gather, this is similar to the current Carlin 60200 model.



The setup is a Weil Mclain Gold boiler/radiator style setup. It has 2 zones controlled by Honeywell R845A aquastats that are wired to a main Honeywell control. For oil burner it has a Carlin EZ-1HPW setup. Uncertain the history of the machine but visually it looks ok, and I found a few service tags from a few years back on general maintenance stuff that's been done.


Things I've Tried:
So far I've checked the system for power, and it is calling for power from the thermostat and I can hear the aquastat relay kicking on to send the request to the primary control to turn on the burner. However, nothing ever happens at the burner and it never attempts to fire/spark and the burner motor doesn't ever attempt to spin. From what I can tell, when the system power is on, and the thermostat is calling for power the circulator pumps are running since I can feel they are just slightly warm and can feel the hum, so I know those are being called for power when the thermostat is calling the system for heat.

Anything else I should be checking? The blower motor reset button is not popped and is pushed in as it should be. I haven't done any manual testing in the primary control wiring to test the motor separately or the ignition transformer but I may do those next just to rule them out. I could not find any other reset/relay/safety in the system that was tripped.

Anyone have experience with this primary control and know what to expect from the led's, and its general function? Any tips on what to check? My first thought is that the primary may be bad and I see the Carlin 60200-02 is a direct replacement for the 643-900-317 so that's a first possible test.

Could this be a bad primary controller? Anything else I should be checking in the primary/aquastat/main controller to try to get this thing to fire or at least help me get to the next level of diagnosis?

Help appreciated!




Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
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    i recommend a qualified tech. You probably need your boiler cleaned/pm'd/serviced and your tech/company would (should) have the skills/tools/parts to get you up and running.
    steve
  • HandyFS
    HandyFS Member Posts: 108
    edited October 2022
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    I cleaned the machine with a soot saw to get some of the general cleaning done. I intend to have a service technician come to get the system all in order and running, but I'd like to make some progress on my own so when they come they can get things actually up and running.

    I have some experience with oil burners and furnaces, I used to help out a licensed service tech in my neighborhood in my younger years randomly. Didn't do stuff completely on my own, but he had me giving a hand on all sorts so I have some general knowledge of these systems.

    Hoping for some extra info to help diagnose a bit further along. Any other simple tests to try? Could this be a bad primary oil controller?
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
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    I recommend a qualified tech. You probably need your boiler cleaned/pm'd/serviced and your tech/company would (should) have the skills/tools/parts to get you up and running.
    steve
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,834
    edited October 2022
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    That control is made by Carlin for Weil-McLain. The label is a Weil-McLain label with a Weil-McLain part number so that you might purchase the replacement part thru a Weil McLain parts distributer at a much larger markup than a generic control. If I were doing the professional repair on your burner, I might select the newer Carlin 70200 control If the existing primary control was actually defective. the newer controls have more diagnostic features.

    Now, you could spend money on a new control and see if it solves your problem... But after you spend the money on that control and you have the same problem... what will you check next? Maybe the motor is bad, Maybe the electronic ignition is defective... When you become frustrated and find all the expensive parts you replaced did not get you the desired result, Will the Professional, with the knowledge and experience to find the problem within the first 10 minutes of the service call, be a better deal?

    Perhaps @STEVEusaPA has a good idea. He recommends a qualified tech. You probably need your boiler cleaned/pm'd/serviced and your tech/company would (should) have the skills/tools/parts to get you up and running.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,834
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    I must add this vert technical observation from your Quote:
    From what I can tell, when the system power is on, and the thermostat is calling for power the circulator pumps are running since I can feel they are just slightly warm and can feel the hum, so I know those are being called for power when the thermostat is calling the system for heat.

    When my customers used to call me about their heater Humming... I would tell them the heater must have forgotten the words. Just put the sheet music out where the controls can see it and the humming should stop.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    MikeAmannCLambPeteA
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,835
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    EdTheHeaterMan said:

    I must add this vert technical observation from your Quote:

    From what I can tell, when the system power is on, and the thermostat is calling for power the circulator pumps are running since I can feel they are just slightly warm and can feel the hum, so I know those are being called for power when the thermostat is calling the system for heat.

    When my customers used to call me about their heater Humming... I would tell them the heater must have forgotten the words. Just put the sheet music out where the controls can see it and the humming should stop.
    (groan)

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    JUGHNE
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,835
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    Is there 120v at B1 in the aquastat? Other than that, see above. Maybe try the soot sword again?
  • HandyFS
    HandyFS Member Posts: 108
    edited October 2022
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    I appreciate everyone's feedback and recommendations, and the humor along the way. I know you guys say to leave it to the pros and I agree that's what I'm going to do. I'm still going to do some of my own diagnostics beforehand though. I'm not an HVAC pro, but I'm sure you guys have went on YouTube looking for advice or posted in a forum where you aren't a professional in the space looking for advice. If you have the will to "do" things, you naturally want to understand them before you blindly turn them over to a professional. I respect you all and your knowledge and I appreciate all you've shared, even if its just to tell me to call the pros.

    I'm still on the path to do more probing with a multimeter in the control box wiring, the aquastat to check for resistance and power where it is supposed to be. I'll check the burner motor to a direct power source to see if it spins, I'll test the ignition to see if it sparks at the coil and at the end of the nozzle, and I'll do some probing around the circulation pumps for power, and I'll remove them and check if they are jammed up or freely spinning. If things still have no clear answer, I'll probably grab a Carlin 60200-02 as a direct replacement, or try a 70200 with the extra features and then put it on the shelf as a spare if its ever needed in the future.

    I took my father's oil burner apart since I was a teenager more time than I can count in the middle of the night for a quick fix and to save the wait and call to a repairman at that hour.

    For the initial diagnostics, I'm jumping in to at least do the things that won't cost me any money other than some time and to learn the system. So I appreciate any of the small pieces of info anyone has shared that can actually help me diagnose.

    Once its time to actually get this thing running and actually functioning efficiently and reliably I give all the credit where the credit is due, and leave it to the pros.
    EdTheHeaterMan said:

    That control is made by Carlin for Weil-McLain. The label is a Weil-McLain label with a Weil-McLain part number so that you might purchase the replacement part thru a Weil McLain parts distributer at a much larger markup than a generic control. If I were doing the professional repair on your burner, I might select the newer Carlin 70200 control If the existing primary control was actually defective. the newer controls have more diagnostic features.

    My furnace has the 70200 after my last primary went out. I have a contract on that machine so the tech swapped it out and has been running well ever since. That screen is nice how it tells some simple details on the function.
    HVACNUT said:

    Is there 120v at B1 in the aquastat? Other than that, see above. Maybe try the soot sword again?

    Haven't gotten that far on checking B1 for power but I'm going to do some general probing soon. LOL, the Soot saw works extremely well as far as I can tell.

  • JerryC
    JerryC Member Posts: 4
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    Lately I have noticed a slight buzzing sound coming from my primary control (R7284U1004).When I give it a tap it stops. When it does buzz I noticed the nozzle pees out some oil which makes me think that the solenoid is not shutting it off. Could the buzzing have something to do with that?
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,835
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    JerryC said:
    Lately I have noticed a slight buzzing sound coming from my primary control (R7284U1004).When I give it a tap it stops. When it does buzz I noticed the nozzle pees out some oil which makes me think that the solenoid is not shutting it off. Could the buzzing have something to do with that?
    Sounds like you might have 2 issues if oil is leaking from the nozzle while the burner is off.
    Is it a Clean Cut Pump?
  • JerryC
    JerryC Member Posts: 4
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    It is just a suntek
  • JerryC
    JerryC Member Posts: 4
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    I think it is a issue with the primary itself.

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