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A salty idea

Larry Weingarten
Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,547
Here's an interesting way to use salt for heat storage. https://siliconcanals.com/news/startups/eindhoven-heat-battery-gas-free-homes-tno-spinoff/ It'll be interesting to see if it goes anywhere.

Yours, Larry

Comments

  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,980
    The Mother of Invention!
    Retired and loving it.
  • Dave Carpentier
    Dave Carpentier Member Posts: 174
    The proverbial free lunch / perpetual energy ?
    I'll have to take that with a grain of salt.
    (sorry, had to..)
    30+ yrs in telecom outside plant.
    Currently in building maintenance.
    STEVEusaPAPC7060Solid_Fuel_Man
  • fentonc
    fentonc Member Posts: 100
    That idea was more interesting than I was expecting - it's not free energy, but it seems like it has some very nice properties for energy storage. So long as it's kept dry, it can be stored indefinitely or transported, and 'recharging' it is just drying it out, so it can use very low grade heat. It's not that crazy to imagine cheaply drying out mountains of this stuff in the summer on a commercial/industrial scale, and storing it until needed in the winter.
    jpm659er
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,522
    Is it dissolution/drying or is it hydrating and dehydrating? If you are actually driving the hydrate out of a crystal out you need a high temp, if you are only bringing it in and out of solution you can do that at a much lower temp.
    jpm659er
  • Dave Carpentier
    Dave Carpentier Member Posts: 174
    Cant see this for typical north american detached houses. Hauling, storing and returning depleted 50 lb bags of salt. Although the net pollution would be less than individual fossil-fuel heating systems, it would be a lot of effort. Sounds like it could work in some situations (apartment buildings or commercial buildings).
    Neat the things people invent.
    30+ yrs in telecom outside plant.
    Currently in building maintenance.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,547
    edited May 3
    Hi, As I read the article, it seems the heat battery can be live at a fixed point like a boiler, and/or collect heat from some process and then be transported to a distribution center and its heat used much like is done with district heating.
    I wonder how well the salt could be heated via solar thermal, for individual homes or for a small stationary district system? I also wonder what the heat storage capacity of this is versus water? I haven't found answers, but am intrigued by how it uses the properties of materials to solve a problem.

    Yours, Larry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 16,304
    I I saw this tank at this years AHR, from one of the Aalberts companies 
    Lateno was a tank that was also a storage vessel with phase change salts, I believe 
    A few were imported into Canada by Victor at Solarnetix back around 2009
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,740
    Interesting stuff ,phase changing while releasing energy . I can see it useful in energy storage on off peak and as storage for short cycling prevention and ramp down cycle energy storage . The hard part of it is ,storage space weather it hot or cold storage system above or below ground also a lot has to do with a given space ,will the storage and use justify the cost and will there be savings? I ve always pondered the energy phase changing but I believe like a bank your not getting as much as u put in theres no free energy . I believe the biggest issue concerning the future if any of this type of system is space ,the main point being they give no space for mechanicals in homes and buildings so I can only image that giving up a large space for such storage would be tough . I know Year’s ago a large facility was looking into cold storage for cooling between a cold storage space which would have been unground and cost as compared to storage and cost recovery from off peak it was still a huge wash and was considered that both the storage and field life span it would never have a decent roi before key components would be at the lifespans end ,so it was canned this was at a science and technical center . This was years ago but by now that original equipment has most likely been replaced and I highly doubt they did the storage system . I personally feel the that ammonia absorption using water as the medium and possible solar / fossil / electric as the driver is a excellent system . Remember ammonia is one of the cheapest abundant refrigerants as compared to most manufactured refrigerants and u know when there’s a leak for sure . Which ponders this why isn’t odorant added to refrigerants to easy lol
    Everybody kinda forgets that it was one of the first refrigeration and I feel it got shot down and pushed back by both DuPont and companies like carrier and even bigger corporations
    The biggest key to energy savings is lowering use , the building of homes and new commercial buildings that use less energy ,that follow modern methods of energy conservation and basically common sense which has really gone the way of the masterdom. If most home spent just 1/2 of what a kitchen costs they would have a tighter buildings ,required erv and low temp heating systems and low operating cost heating systems .
    As it may seem off topic and possibly is but making unrepairable and limited life span equiptmemt to keep the manufacturing end of life going in the name of eff seems to be a misnomer w refrigerants that have properties don’t add up as a trouble free long term solution seem counter productive .
    I know others w larger brains and better spelling are surely the deciding ones I just hope there looking long term and not just hog wash to keep the production of new equipment and economy in swing while they line there pockets w worthless money .
    Food for though peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Larry WeingartenPC7060
  • jpm659er
    jpm659er Member Posts: 3
    Salt as a refrigerant. Who would of thought!
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,453
    I've always thought about a way to capture the waste heat on a mobile vehicle instead of wasting it out a cooking system. 

    Then when you get home connect a couple of quick connect hydraulic lines and pull that stored heat out and into home's heating system. 
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,547
    Hi @Solid_Fuel_Man , That's interesting... sort of a split-phase micro co-gen! Seems you would want light weight heat storage. But why waste the heat when it has a use at home? B)

    Yours, Larry