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how to handle the bleed if i flip the oil pump

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archibald tuttle
archibald tuttle Member Posts: 1,085
in Oil Heating
got a burner in a friend's shop where the guys keep kicking the oil line and causing problems. its a tool store room as well as boiler room and they generally observe reasonably clearance and all as they move stuff around and the way the line is currently installed is an invitation to problems. the most protected install i could envision is just to flip the pump 180 degrees so the inlet faces the boiler and then use and 1/4" male pipe el by flare for the connection thus keep everything very tight and out of the way but this puts the bleed screw to the top. i don't think there is a plugged alternative location for it kitty corner, but maybe i didn't look hard enough last time i was there cause this wasn't brought up. could i just leave a small hose over it coiled to a collection can. i'm not aware of a fitting that could allow me to pipe it off at a different angle. or maybe i could let a left instead of right pump or . . . and then i would just need to figure maybe a new bulkhead line. i'm not there now but they just called and I'm trying to think through problems ahead if anyone has done something like this (actually i'm surprised i haven't previously when i think about but . . . ). i'll have more info/pictures later.

thanks,

brian

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,835
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    I don't believe the pump will function properly "Upside-down"

    You can try to use the alternate inlet opening on the bottom.



    Look at the bottom 1/4" plugs in the diagram. The one on the left is an optional inlet.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
    edited February 2020
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    Why not just use a piece of flexible oil line? Or 90 off of the inlet on the pump cover and go up.
    Pump will work fine upside down, but now you have to move the nozzle line. Still seems like a bad idea.
    You can sleeve the oil line in some pipe up to the burner.
    All pumps need to be bled with a tube from the bleed port to a can submerged in oil, only proper way.
    Older danfoss (I think) pumps, as well as J pumps had the bleeder port on top.
    Edit: Just to clarify, for Suntec, "A" pumps can be mounted in any position, "B" pumps (two stage) can not be mounted upside down.
    steve
    rick in Alaska
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,524
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    Yes, as @STEVEusaPA & @EdTheHeaterMan mentioned some pumps are mounting position sensative.

    The Webster pumps had the bleeder on top I think. also the bleeder port is i think 1/8"ips so you could uses fittings and a valve and change it any way you want.
  • archibald tuttle
    archibald tuttle Member Posts: 1,085
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    thanks for all the replies. i'll be back there today. going to check what oil pump is on this burner. @EBEBRATT-Ed , it might be 1/8" pipe thread but im pretty sure that the bleeder is parallel and i don't think there is a bushing to pull out to get back to pipe thread but maybe i didn't look close enough.

    I'm going to assume this is pretty vanilla but i've just been doing hydronic piping for them and they asked about this after i left and didn't have a chance to give the burner a close appraisal so i'll have little better knowledge today.

    That said, on virtually every installation i've seen it seems to me that if i'm willing to deal with getting a different bulkhead line the flip would be OK, maybe there is some internal gravity aspect of the pump i'm not considering so i'm trying to narrow down pumps that might be sensitive to this. And I appreciate the diagrams that are a reminder that there is probalby an inlet on the bottom of the pump. of course that also would be perfect if i flipped the pump it would cut a 90 deg. elbow out. but if flippling can't be confirmed as approriate on this burner i can come with two 90's out the bottom to had the line up.

    thanks again,

    brian
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,835
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    You could just move the inlet from the side to the bottom.
    A short 1/4" nipple and elbow and face it where you want to reconnect.
    Leave a couple inches between the oil line and the floor so I can get my tray under there when I need to replace the strainer. Everyone screws the service guy.
  • archibald tuttle
    archibald tuttle Member Posts: 1,085
    edited March 2020
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    HVACNUT said:

    You could just move the inlet from the side to the bottom.

    A short 1/4" nipple and elbow and face it where you want to reconnect.

    Leave a couple inches between the oil line and the floor so I can get my tray under there when I need to replace the strainer. Everyone screws the service guy.

    So actually been back by and this is indeed a standard vanilla suntec A2VA-7116. And it does not have an alternative bottom inlet, but the inlet is on the outermost block which looks symmetrical so i could just take it off to clean the screen and then turn it a quarter turn when going back on without flipping the whole pump or reworking the bulkhead line, kind of like turning a circulator cartridge 90 degrees to get the electrics in more convenient position.

    suntec is either on winter break or cornora virus lockdown so they say they are all working remotely and might get back to me when i called to confirm my latest intuition. so just reporting back anyway. if anyone has pulled that trick lmk.

    brian
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
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    There's an inlet on the pump body (body), and an inlet on the cover. If you can turn the cover 1/4 turn, I'm pretty sure they will tell you that the pump gasket must stay in it's original position, matching the holes.
    steve
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,457
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    I would have to see a picture of what you have. I just have a hard time trying to figure out why you can't come out of the side inlet with a 90, hook up you flare line, and just tuck it in close to the burner to keep it away from careless feet. I am thinking we are missing something here.
    Rick
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,835
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    @archibald tuttle I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE STILL NOT GETTING THIS. LOOK AT THE PUMP CLOSELY


    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
  • archibald tuttle
    archibald tuttle Member Posts: 1,085
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    I get what you to look for and the location in terms of the inlet end of the pump furthest from the burner makes sense. that is an excellent picture, but i didn't see that alternative inlet. maybe the plug is so tight that i missed it but i knew what and where i was looking. although I still might have prefered to turn that outermost part of the housing for a top outlet and my understanding of the theory of ops suggests that would have been fine as long as it was symetrical, i couldn't get that confirmed so I put a street elbow and flare el out of the valve and it came out pretty tight so i didn't sweat it. i will look again just to see if i'm looking right through it. thanks, brian

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