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Is HTP UFT 80k very good boiler?

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brucewayne
brucewayne Member Posts: 8
edited October 2016 in Gas Heating
I just want to know how the industry feels about this boiler thus far (HTP UFT 80). Are all mod cons generally very good?

i once was offered a bosch boiler. But to me, thats like buying a ferrari. I dont want to buy a super boiler
a luxury or sports car boiler is fine for me.

i still have 30yr cast iron laars boiler, heat exchanger is rusty though

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  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
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    never heard Bosch called a ferrari but...any condensing boiler has it's place only as far as the install. Piping must be followed. wiring installed properly and then the personal factor. I like to talk with people about what they want. Folks who are getting up there in age arent looking for huge saving's.. They want it warm and want to hear the system respond when they turn the tstat up.

    On that note..I've installed a number of HTP. Tech support has been excellent, and the system's have run as designed with only one issue (bad motor) that was addressed over night...
  • delta T
    delta T Member Posts: 884
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    A boiler is only as good as the install.

    You cannot really look at just the boiler, a 'cheap' mod con will function well if the system it is hooked up to is appropriate. A top of the line mod con will have lots of issues and low efficiency and life hooked up to a system that does not support it.

    The real benefit with modcons comes from the 'con' part, and is only available if you can achieve low return water temperatures. If you cannot do this, you will have a very expensive boiler that is a little bit more efficient than your old cast iron (but not much), but costs much more in maintenance.

    If you have a low temperature radiant system, by all means, get a mod con, but choose your brand primarily based on what the local support is like. Do local supply shops carry parts on their shelves for the brand you want? Is your installer familiar with the boiler? What kind of boiler will work best with your system? These are all much more important than the brand you choose.

    brucewayne
  • brucewayne
    brucewayne Member Posts: 8
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    the low return water temp shouldnt be a problem, outdoor reset control fixes that

    i have looked at ibc, htp and others because they are canadian made or close enough. I live in Canada, i feel better with brand that can ship parts fastest.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Your best bet is to stick with what is acceptable for the reasons you stated. Also a brand the installer of choice is familiar with.

    I would not call Bosch the luxury brand.
    delta T
  • brucewayne
    brucewayne Member Posts: 8
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    but wait, do you think its possible return temperature might run into issues just because?
    I havent heard of these problems, i just assume the reset switch would take care of temperature regardless.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    ODR is a curve setup based on emitter type, and design loads.

    IF your emitters are sized bigger than needed. Maybe because someone upgraded the envelope after they were installed, or just put in more emitter than needed. Then you can use lower than rated AWT at design day. Also above design day will warrant lower AWT.
    brucewayne
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
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    brucewayne said:

    but wait, do you think its possible return temperature might run into issues just because?
    I havent heard of these problems, i just assume the reset switch would take care of temperature regardless.

    You can run the supply water as cold as you like, but...

    If you have a room that requires 5,100 BTU's to maintain 68f on design day- that would dictate approximately 10' of fintube with supply water temp of 180F (standard SWT with CI boilers) with and average water temp of 170F. Unless your house was designed for low temp baseboard- you probably have close to 10' of baseboard in that room.

    Take the same room and lower the supply water to condensing range of 135F with an average water temp of 125F and now you're only getting 2,900 BTU's out of that 10' of fin tube.
    To keep that room warm- you'll have to raise the supply temp above condensing range which defeats the point of using a mod-con boiler.... or you'll have to add another 8' of so of fintube to that room's emitter to maintain temps with lower supply water temps.

    You have to do a heatloss analysis to see if a mod-con will fit or can fit with emmiter additions in your system.
    The good thing is many older houses have more fintube then they need, so with minor emitter additions a mod-com can work.




    delta T
  • delta T
    delta T Member Posts: 884
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    Exactly this. ODR will not guaranty that your boiler will condense. You must check the heat loss, and the emitter sizing to know if you will be able to get low enough return water to make the boiler condense for a large enough portion of the heating season to make a modcon worth it. Baseboard can be tricky with this, I would say maybe 1 in 5 baseboard systems I run into can readily support a modcon without adding more radiation. Most will be condensing only at outside temps about 45 and up. Where I am at that is a small portion of the season, too small to warrant the extra cost of a modcon. If I can get the boiler to condense down to an OAT of about 25 or 30 it starts to make more sense.

    You may have different climatic conditions though....only the math will tell.
    HatterasguyJohn Mills_5
  • Henry
    Henry Member Posts: 998
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    Here in the Great White North, we have 1100 hours of boiler operation. Of this amount there are ONLY less than 200 hours at design temperature. Thus the other 900 hours are run at below design temperature including baseboard. So ODR will have the boiler condensing for most of the winter! I did 9 apartment blocks of the same size in downtown Montreal with baseboards. The savings with a mod-con were from 35 to 55% and that depended on the users. It is essential to have a P/S system where the main system has continuous circulation. The modulating mod-con will inject just what is necessary.
    SWEI
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    edited November 2016
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    Most of the magic of a mod/con comes from the MODulation. This allows the boiler to follow the load, which delivers two key benefits:
    • It maximizes burn times (reducing standby losses, thermal cycling, HX and component stress)
    • It reduces overshoot (improving comfort -- especially in high mass systems)
    CONdensation brings efficiency improvements -- even to ODR-controlled systems with a 180°F system design temperature. More condensation, more savings -- but I've yet to see less than a 30% reduction in fuel usage on a mod/con replacement (which we designed or specified) of a conventional boiler.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    I just edited the statement for clarity: We specified or supplied the mod/con, which replaced an existing CI boiler.

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