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Hydrostat 3250 Plus issues

Good Morning fellow board members.

I have replaced the the original Hydrolevel 3250 Plus
with the replacement unit provided at no cost to me by the retailer.
I purchased the Dual fuel boiler from and after wiring it up it is
behaving exactly like the old one I replaced it with.

They being Keystoker stopped buying the Honeywell units because
they did not have a low water cut off and the Hydrolevel units have an
integral LWCO in their triple aquastats circuit board wiring. How they do
that without a sensor in the water flow I do not know.
I bought a remote mounting kit for the new hydrolevel but as the replacement
triple aquastat is behaving like the old one I will probably sell it to an aquaintance
of mine that uses them.

The 3250 plus is not firing the burner with a call for heat from the thermostat-
Yes everything is wired correctly and wire numbers and letters were used to
organize the the wiring correctly using the number and letter codes on terminals
of the Hydrostat 3250 Plus.

The Riello burner works correctly when it is tested with a jumper to test it and
as this is what the Burner tech checked when he came to service the burner
and he could not explain why it was not working either.

The replacement burner module is new and original equipment for Riello burners
and the TT terminals in the side of the burner control module are not used-
I checked on this with the folks at Riello too to make sure I did not make any mistakes.

As the first 3250 plus was bad-the boiler went to steam and did not shut the system
down I am of the opinion that the replacement unit is also faulty.

( I am not going to go through another winter because of a faulty boiler control system)

The Coal side of the boiler works correctly-it starts and stops, and the Robert Shaw three position switch
used to control both the oil and coal stoker works correctly and is not damaged.

I can verify that the hydrolevel 3250 Plus would not regulate the temperature very
well while the coal stoker was operating and would overheat and dump the heat in
the house loop which is also the heat dump loop.


I am planning on replacing this thing with a pair of Honeywell L8214A's and a pair of Honeywell
low water cut offs to stop all the problems if we cannot find the problem on Wednesday and
I will be sending both units back with the defective gauge.

As The boiler builder(Keystoker) has had more than fifty of these things returned due to failures I am
of the opinion that these units are also faulty. I would love to know how many of these things have
been returned as failed units so far.

The Riello burner control was replaced by me after I found the mistake that blew it up(shorted out with a bang)
was made by the plumbers I hired to install the new boiler.

The system ground was attached to the alarm circuit on the burner base(by the plumber) the X surrounded by a large circle rather than the ground lug on the Riello burner combustion fan. Apparently this is a mistake the customer service folks are familiar with at the Riello office help line in the U.S.


Thoughts anyone??

Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,314
    Same thoughts as your last thread about the same issue.
    Did you quantify and qualify the incoming voltage, and equally important hertz (cycles)?
    I've replaced 5 hydrolevels in my life, you're on your 3rd.
    You should attach something on the burner circuit to stop voltage spikes as a precaution.
    Then you should get someone in there who can properly diagnose it and fix it.
    I don't think anyone is properly diagnosing your trouble. Did anyone check for shorted/loose wires, proper ground, nicked wire going thru a control, anti shorts, etc?
    Not shutting off on proper temperatures indicate the temperature sensor in not sitting in the well properly, or it's the wrong well, or your water quality has caused the well to become surrounded with crud-thus blocking proper temperature sensing, and losing the ground required to make the LWCO work properly.
    Or just by a case of aquastats and keep changing them out.

    You mention a Riello control short...
    The alarm contacts are 120v on the Riello, so you're lucky it only had a bang...
    steve
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 422

    Same thoughts as your last thread about the same issue.

    ==================================================
    1. Did you quantify and qualify the incoming voltage, and equally important hertz (cycles)?
    ====================================================

    =====================================================
    2. I've replaced 5 hydrolevels in my life, you're on your 3rd.
    You should attach something on the burner circuit to stop voltage spikes as a precaution.
    ====================================================
    2a.Then you should get someone in there who can properly diagnose it and fix it.
    ====================================================

    3. I don't think anyone is properly diagnosing your trouble. Did anyone check for shorted/loose wires, proper ground, nicked wire going thru a control, anti shorts, etc?
    ======================================================




    4. Not shutting off on proper temperatures indicate the temperature sensor in not sitting in the well properly, or it's the wrong well, or your water quality has caused the well to become surrounded with crud-thus blocking proper temperature sensing, and losing the ground required to make the LWCO work properly.

    5. Or just by a case of aquastats and keep changing them out.

    6. You mention a Riello control short...
    The alarm contacts are 120v on the Riello, so you're lucky it only had a bang...

    ======================================================


    Hello SteveusaPA,

    1. The voltages are correct as is the 60 cycle AC. The system is fed from a 4,000 Volt AC single phase wire pair(hot/neutral) to a 4000 Volt to 220 volt AC wet transformer on the pole to the new panel for 220 volt for the Dryer and electric stove and 110 volt AC power for all the outlets.

    2. that is on my to do list.
    2a. its the second Hydrostat actually- I should have just replaced it with the Honeywell he gave me but it was working and I returned the Honeywell L8214A and I kick myself for doing that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    3. my new heating contractor is coming on Wednesday 15, June 2016.

    4. Yes, I have checked all the existing boiler wiring for nicks or shorts/burned wire and used 3M wire numbers and letters to properly mark each wire in the Hydrostat using the wire letters and numbers marked on the circuit board.

    a. I still have to wire number and letter the 5 existing wires on the Robert Shaw 3 way switch for the 110 volt power which feeds both systems from the three way switch.

    5. The plumber I hired used the Hydrowell supplied by Carlisle combustion/Hydrolevel that was in the box.

    5. at $400.00 a copy I wont be buying these things ever!!!!!!!!

    6. Yes I was not happy when they came back to hook up the oil burner and it shorted out the original control and the used one they gave me.

    I am certainly glad the burner motor and capacitor were not destroyed in that incident.

    It has to be the Hydrostat as that is the only thing left that could not be functioning properly as the L6006A thermostat wires and the house thermostat wires are sistered WW/RR
    at the TT terminals in the hydrolevel to control both the circulator and the dump circuit through the L6006A PER the old keystoker drawings.

    Hopefully they will have the new updated corrected wiring circuit drawings mailed to me soon.

    The Hydrostat 3250 plus LED for heat call is lit up and calling for heat and the burner is not firing and as it controls everything that tells me that it is bad. As I said the Keystoker people have had 50 plus of those units returned as failed and the new unit and the old unit that was supplied with the boiler were assembled within a month of each other according to the dates on the boxes and the in the owners manual the Hydrolevel people just say to replace it if it is not working.

    Even with purging and dumping heat it still overheats so I need to have it fixed right and I am not sure that the placing of the L6006A in the cool water return side of the boiler in the top of the steam chest was the right decision simply due the lack of control issue/overheating.

    I never had a lick of trouble with the single honeywell L8214A and the L4006A's used to control the old oil boiler and the hand fed wood and coal boiler that were connected together to heat the house for 35 years. That just tells me that Honeywell is the premium product as the Hydrolevel people say it is for oil boilers.

    I am just going to simplify things and use a pair of L8214A's to control the boiler and I have to decide if I am going to leave the L6006A in the top of the steam chest on the return side or move it to the tapping next to the triple aquastat tapping.

    I am tired of fighting with this "so called modern technology" that would have leveled my house if it were not for the relief blow off valve in the steam chest.

    I will need more BX cable to run the new hydrostat remotely if another problem is causing the burner not to fire. Saying that I have gone through everything in the Riello manual for trouble shooting and I know its not the burner or the new module.
    I can say that with confidence as the Riello folks had a keystoker coal stoker boiler sent to them to obtain the CSA and UL certification for their boilers using the Riello gas and oil burners.

    I was lucky enough to chat with one of the Riello Folks that remembers when Keystoker sent a boiler up there to be tested and certified and he was very impressed with them
    .
    The Hydrolevel folks are pretty poor about return E Mails or phone calls and I have always had someone from Honeywell respond with emails and or phone calls if I need help or have questions.

    SO we shall see what Wednesday 15, June brings.


  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    The Hydrolevel 3250 Plus has special feature that have to be dialed in correctly to function, it has settings for how many zones you have if any, and a energy saving feature that senses the boiler temperature and will not fire the burner unless a real load is detected ( water temp drop rate), go through the manual and be sure these are set properly or disabled if that's what you want.

    These controls are of high quality,, 50 bad ones?? doubt it, 50 bad diagnoses and not understanding the technology more likely.
    STEVEusaPA
  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    McDonnell Miller has an extremely effective modification for the hydrolevel that really allows the hydrolevel to perform to it's fullest potential. Disconnect ELWCO wiring , install McDonnell Miller 67 , wire per instructions. Problem solved.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 422
    What is so aggravating is that I have set the system to operate at summer temperatures 140 low 160 high and it still hits 190-200 which is too hot for me anyway as The stoker pusher plate throw is set at 5 threads which is about 1/3 of an inch.

    I am going to use a mix of Pea and rice coal this year to see if the temperatures come down to 160 for the high limit which is what I really want as the house gets too hot and I have to open the windows. If I had the dump zone in the garage it would be no issue but I cannot afford to buy a Zurn forced air to water garage heater this year.
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 422
    I do have a Dwyer Mark 2 that I have to move as the Plumbers put it on the stack end of the stoker, not happy about that but as I was making 5 round trips to town for supplies and parts I was not around much.
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 422
    Good Morning fellow board members,

    I had the new plumber come by yesterday and we ran the boiler through one cycle with the new 4 inch gauge and the replacement Hydrostat 3250 plus. The difference between the two was thirty degrees(yes the boiler was full of water and it had no air in it).

    The low water cut off function was roperly programmed into the Hydyrostat 3250 Plus and activated and indicated by the word "on" on the screen and it did not light up the LWCO active LED on the box when the oil burner was operating continuously while we waited even though the screen indicated it was active when programmed

    SO as a result of this I am trying to return the unused and in box 20 foot long remote cable for the Hydrostat 3250.

    I was told yesterday by the retailer I bought it from that Hydrostat that it was a special order item and it was past the ten day return period and they would not accept it back. The gentleman I dealt with said he asked to talk to a supervisor and left a message and was waiting for a call back from Hydrolevel.

    SO if this does not result in my being able to return the unused cable I will be getting a bit upset and calling the Attorney . Generals office of Connecticut to attempt to resolve this issue as fifty plus dollars is still fifty plus dollars out of my pocket.

    SO I have made up my mind Both the replacement unit and the unit provided with the boiler and the defective 4 inch gauge
    are going back in the box and being mailed back to Wilkins Coal
    in Owego, NY.

    SO if any of you would like a new unused 20 foot remote cable for a Hydrostat control I will sell it to you for 50 dollars and postage to you zip code

    I am also placing it in the classifieds section here on the forum.

    I willbe replacing it with the Honeywell L8124A product and a separate low water cut off either a Mcdonald & Miller model 67 or a their Bull Dog Electronic low water cut off before the heating season starts.


    I gave them the benefit of the doubt and they being Carlisle Combustion would not return my phone calls or emails so...................
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 422
    edited July 2016
    I have another boiler control question;

    Should I leave the L6006A on the boiler and use it to control the pump for the high temp overshoots with the TT wire operating in parallel as it is now or would it be better to just use the L8124A to keep things simpler as the wiring harness and coil oil switch are directly below the boilers triple aquastat tapping for my Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel unit.

    I was told by a mechanical engineer/plumber that I did not need the L6006A with a L8124A triple aquastat.

    My other question is can I use the OEM well from the old L4006A for my L8124A probe or do I need buy another well? I am shipping the original well from the Hydrostat in the box back to the dealer and good riddance.