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quiet zone valve for point of use electronic thermostat

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brainfog
brainfog Member Posts: 13
in Thermostats and Controls
My goal is to separately control the temperature in each room from a single hydronic loop. This has been done in one room with a Tyco Sentry zone valve but it makes far too much noise. A 2 way valve was used so the bypass path always open.

So I'm looking for a quiet 1/2" or 3/4" zone valve. One that can not be heard when actuating in the same room at night.

It would also be ideal if it did NOT require a holding current to remain open. This would mean it was a stop and stay put type. I guess this would need at least 3 wires (common, open, close). With this it would also be possible implement variable flow - which is the best solution. If it was a stop and stay put, then it wouldn't need to be so quiet.

Thank you!
Chris

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  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    How do you plan to control the variable flow?
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
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    So the valve will be in each room and not the equipment room?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,139
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    Thermo-actuators type zone valves are silent, the low current draw 250 mA for a few seconds at start up, then require a small holding current.

    Most any zone valve that involves a motor and gear train, or spring return will make some noise.

    If you want wireless, variable flow type, sounds like a thermostatic radiator valve is what you are looking for?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    I think Heatlink sells a modulating thermal actuator zone control.
  • brainfog
    brainfog Member Posts: 13
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    SWEI said:

    How do you plan to control the variable flow?

    Still working on this. Ideal is something that accepts 24VAC and a 0-10V control signal - or just a 4ma - 20mA control signal.
  • brainfog
    brainfog Member Posts: 13
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    SWEI said:

    I think Heatlink sells a modulating thermal actuator zone control.

    I found a 3/4" Straight Zone Valve and the thermal actuator that controls it. It seems like it would be as quiet as possible! However, the thermal actuator consumes a lot of power to remain open so I don't think it would work for me in a retrofit application. Do you know if there is a mechanical version that can move and remain at the position?


  • brainfog
    brainfog Member Posts: 13
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    unclejohn said:

    So the valve will be in each room and not the equipment room?

    Correct. In the current version, the valve is just at the entry point of the pipe into the room. I ended up operating it manually.
  • brainfog
    brainfog Member Posts: 13
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    hot rod said:

    Thermo-actuators type zone valves are silent, the low current draw 250 mA for a few seconds at start up, then require a small holding current.

    Could you point me to one?
    hot rod said:

    Most any zone valve that involves a motor and gear train, or spring return will make some noise.

    Agreed. However, it is my hope that someone makes one the moves slow enough that it is quiet enough....
    hot rod said:

    If you want wireless, variable flow type, sounds like a thermostatic radiator valve is what you are looking for?

    I found Honeywell Braukmann T104A1040 I wasn't aware they worked with water loops. If I can't find an electronic one then I might end up going in this direction.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,139
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    Here are some choices. Disclaimer: I do work for Caleffi.

    The two thermal actuator versions we offer are the unique TwisTop, which allow manual operation. Also a low current draw version 6763, non TwisTop..

    Here is a graph that shows power consumption. Notice the thermal type only pull a high draw for less than one minute.

    Sorry the 6763 low current is not on this graph yet, it will be in the middle of the chart with a 6VA inrush, 3W holding.

    A motorized ball valve, red line on bottom drops power when open, or closed but it does have a small amount of motor and gear noise. It also requires power to open and power to close, 3 wire.

    Notice also we offer these valves with press fittings for ease of installation.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • brainfog
    brainfog Member Posts: 13
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    Thank you all - I learned enough keywords to find what I was after. A 'floating control' actuator with a push type 'valve body'. Turns out I was seeing them but didn't make the connection or thought they're for steam....
    This site had a very useful detailed explanation of the control terms:
    http://controltrends.org/commercial-hvac/03/understanding-onoff-floating-modulatingproportional-control/
  • brainfog
    brainfog Member Posts: 13
    edited December 2015
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    a
  • brainfog
    brainfog Member Posts: 13
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    Hot rod, thank you for the detail. I think the *floating* motorized ball valve is likely the best choice. For this I should only need to nudge the valve a bit periodically and otherwise it takes no power. I can't seem to find one from Caleffi (at least at my online supplier). Do you know of one? For comparison, the Erie AT33A000 seems like the best choose - but I don't know how much noise it makes.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,139
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    brainfog said:

    Hot rod, thank you for the detail. I think the *floating* motorized ball valve is likely the best choice. For this I should only need to nudge the valve a bit periodically and otherwise it takes no power. I can't seem to find one from Caleffi (at least at my online supplier). Do you know of one? For comparison, the Erie AT33A000 seems like the best choose - but I don't know how much noise it makes.

    Belimo is a good source also. Select a valve, then add an actuator. You may need to contact a rep or factory support as the catalog has an overwhelming amount of choices.

    Belimo is heavy on tech info, support, and engineering. I'd guess they test controls in a quiet room like many of the major pump manufacturers do. Let them know of you noise concerns when you call them.

    http://www.belimo.us/americas/

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    brainfog said:

    SWEI said:

    How do you plan to control the variable flow?

    Still working on this. Ideal is something that accepts 24VAC and a 0-10V control signal - or just a 4ma - 20mA control signal.
    Belimo CCV, though you do need do size them correctly. What's the design flow rate for each zone?

    At smaller sizes (characterized Cv up to 14) the TR24 actuators draw about 1VA when running and zero (or nearly so) when stopped (in position. ) The -SR versions accept 2-10V inputs and the -3 versions work with floating inputs (energize one terminal to open or the other to close.)

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