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Taco VT2218

SWEI
SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
edited September 2014 in THE MAIN WALL
HEC-2 is on its way out, soon to be replaced by the new VT2218.
Rich_49SuperTech

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 16,484
    Good idea to blend the name and look with the larger Viridian.

    Unusual 3 pump boiler protection schematic?? It can easily be accomplished with two and better protection, two VS temperature controlled circs. Even with that bypass circ running 100% you can still cold slug that boiler with a large cold load as shown in that piping.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,693
    edited September 2014
    Swei, Will this really replace Bumble Bee ? I believe more that this one will allow us ECM technology on systems that are outside the HEC range where we would use a Delta P ECM or the 008 VDT , even allow us not to jump up to 0013 & 0012 VDT in some cases . Although this could be installed instead of either ^P circs , HEC-2 or 008VDT . All in all , a great new offering from the boys in Cranston
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    I was told that yes, it will replace the Bumble Bee. Going forward, pumps will be green.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,693
    When will this be available to the public at large do you think ? Bumble Bee has a rather large following at this point and quite a bit of R & D , advertising monies invested . Wondering if Taco will replace the line and flush that investment or is it just that the Bumble Bee will take a backseat to this one ?
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Beta is running now, I'll take a wild guess and say EOY.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,693
    Sounds like a safe guess . I'm betting quarter 1 2015
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • markp1
    markp1 Member Posts: 56
    Just talked to my local supply house, and I'll be getting 3 of these for my new install next week. Even better, they are eligible for a $100 instant rebate through Mass Save (in massachusetts), making them under $80 a piece!
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,693
    Correct , I was in Mass last week at HTP and Emerson Swan and it is available in New England . First quarter in the rest of the world
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • markp1
    markp1 Member Posts: 56
    Rich, have you used one yet? Any thoughts?
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,693
    Have not used one yet . Being from Jersey it is not available or attainable here to the public . Keeping it in New England right after Beta is smart as the new product stays close to Taco in RI . Have spoken to several people who have had the opportunity however and the feedback is great . Quieter than Bumble Bee , more head and flow range , should have a huge impact on the industry . Has more setting capabilities also , which never hurts
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • markp1
    markp1 Member Posts: 56
    I'll be using 3 of them as zone circulators (delta-T mode) and 1 of them as the boiler pump (fixed speed). Only the DHW pump will I not be able to use the Viridian as I need about 5 GPM at 22 feet of pressure, which is just out of the Viridian's range. I'll post back in a week or two after they are installed and running.
  • RJMCTAFO
    RJMCTAFO Member Posts: 113
    Have one in my house running for about a week. In my opinion this is way better than the bee. No noise at all.

    I have been saying they need to add a set of contacts that would allow this pump to be sent into a fixed speed mode on a call from an indirect with a zone valve. That way in the majority of houses I do installs I could use one pump with ZV instead of then separating with another pump.

    Initial thoughts are they fixed all the things that were a negative with the bee.
  • ced48
    ced48 Member Posts: 469
    RJMCTAFO said:

    Have one in my house running for about a week. In my opinion this is way better than the bee. No noise at all.

    I have been saying they need to add a set of contacts that would allow this pump to be sent into a fixed speed mode on a call from an indirect with a zone valve. That way in the majority of houses I do installs I could use one pump with ZV instead of then separating with another pump.

    Initial thoughts are they fixed all the things that were a negative with the bee.


    Is the pump as quiet as a 007? No buzzing or humming? They rate the noise level at no more than 40 db, but 40 db is not exactly quiet-
    icesailor
  • RJMCTAFO
    RJMCTAFO Member Posts: 113
    In the normal course of operation I can't hear it while working at my desk in the basement. If I am standing right next to it there is just the typical noise like a 007. Very impressed. Seems they have all the bugs worked out. Although I have probably 12 - 15 bees out there with no issues.
  • mxfrank
    mxfrank Member Posts: 21
    I decided to replace the two zone circulators (007-F5) in my 18 year old system as a PM project. I was only able to find one 2218, so I used that and one HEC2. It was a good opportunity to compare first and second gen technology. It's pretty clear that the 2218 is a major improvement. My observations:

    1) Out of the box, there was a hairline crack in the black plastic logo plate of the Bumblebee. Not visible once installed and no impact on performance, but I do wonder why they used such a delicate name plate. The Viridian 2218 eliminates this plate.

    2) My circulators pump into the boiler, so I had to reverse the housings. The Bumblebee motor mounts with just two allen screws. The screws are recessed deeply into the body. I fumbled with various screwdrivers before I realized it was an allen, and then with several different metric allens until I found one long enough to turn the screws. I'm sure someone did the math, but I think that two screws, turned just a few threads into the casting, aren't going to provide sufficient clamping force to the gasket over the long haul. The Viridian corrects this, using four exposed screws to do the job.

    3) The sensor terminals on the BB are labeled 1,2,3. Doing this the man way (without reading the instructions), I assumed that 1 was the supply sensor, 2 was common and 3 was return. No, 1 was the return sensor, 3 was supply. Pump went a bit crazy until I switched them around. Viridian labels them S,C,R. Which makes more sense.

    4) More on sensor terminals. The sensor connector on the BB is exposed. I accidentally pulled it out while working around the boiler, resulting in a 48 degree bedroom. I now have a tie wrap around the whole pump body to give strain relief for the sensor wires. The Viridian has a plastic cap over the connector which provides protection and some strain relief. It's better, still not perfect.

    4) The BB sounds like it's name...a bumblebee. It's not awful, but it's an additional sound. The Viridian is mostly silent, although it seems to become audible at times. I haven't had it long enough to understand when and why it gets louder. Neither pump makes enough sound to be a problem.

    5) Supply & return sensors for both pumps were identical. The leads on the supply sensor need to be much longer, at least for my installation. I extended them using thermostat wire, not sure if there's enough extra resistance in the wiring to make a difference. I have to get a couple of plastic thermometer strips on the pipes to verify the readings.

    6) The display on the BB ended up sideways in my installation, because the pump is mounted on a vertical riser. It shows power consumption and gpm, but not the temperatures detected by the sensors. The display is bright and easy to read. The Viridian gives much more information on a single display, including input and output temps. Unfortunately, the LCD display can only be read on axis, which for me means that I have to awkwardly bend down to the level of the pump (about 24").

    7) Regulation and power consumption. I don't think either pump is especially precise. They seem to react slowly, which allows considerable drift from the 20 degree delta setpoint. Still, either is a big improvement over dumb 007's. The BB seems to be consuming about half the power of the 007 on average. The Viridian seems to be doing much better...maybe 1/4 of the power consumption.

    Conclusion: the BB may be a solid pump, but the Viridian is the real deal.
    Bob Bona_4Ross_24
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Couldn't have said it better. The 2218 is everything I wanted the Bee to Bee, only way better. Thanks, Taco.
    SWEI
  • RJMCTAFO
    RJMCTAFO Member Posts: 113
    Yep they really have a winner in my opinion. The 1816 is also really nice unit. I carry that on the truck now for service. Had one 2218 that I had to take off delta t mode and set to constant speed due to velocity noise. Not the pumps fault. Just a really small house with multiple zones.
    Bob Bona_4
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    mxfrank said:

    The leads on the supply sensor need to be much longer, at least for my installation. I extended them using thermostat wire, not sure if there's enough extra resistance in the wiring to make a difference.

    It's a 10k thermistor, so don't sweat it.