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Water Hammering

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Poco
Poco Member Posts: 4
in Strictly Steam
I recently bought a house built in 1942. Steam Radiator Heat, one pipe system. Upon the sytem calling for heat and starting up there's Extremely loud banging, water coming out of the Radiator vents, clanking in the radiator feed pipes and the radiators themselves... I'm living with $250 - $400 gas bills... Installed a new Honeywell thermostat. Replaced ALL radiator vents based on size, letters, and numbers i.e. C,D,4,5, and 6... Installed two #1 vents on end of Main header runs on both sides of the basement.. Since this was done the water has stopped.. They will hiss until the raditors heat up then I'll assume close up as they should. Banging is still there BUT not as frequent.... The Boiler itself is 2 years old I was told upon moving in, from the Builder who basically flipped the house. I knew nothing about Steam Heat until now. I've done MORE internet research than I know what to do with. I checked the pressure setting on the boiler which is currently set at .5, the differential dial which is set at 1. I do AT times experience a gurgling sounds within the second floor radiators like there's water trapped OR the steam entering is not allowing the water to return... I've raised the radiators WELL above the 1/4 out of level height so to allow the water to drain back.. ANY suggestiosn as to what might be the cause for all of this noise?? I've read that Steam Radiator Heat is an efficient system and one of, IF not the best heat... BUT for the Gas cost it SURE is not happening in this house!!!!! Thoughts?? I'm thinking MAYBE this Boilers piping is NOT correct... Also there is NO return to the Boiler, i.e. Hartford Loop.... Attached HOPEFULLY is 2 pictures of the piping coming off of the boiler....

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  • Larry_52
    Larry_52 Member Posts: 182
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    That is what you call counter flow gridlock on the main bull head T. Your boiler piping is not adequate, don't have a scanner handy to draw what it should be. Someone should chime in with a decent solution for your piping.
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    Also, the boiler probably needs skimming. Don't see a skim port on it.





  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
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    Download the installation manual for the boiler, and compare the required piping layout/pipe-sizes with what you have. I think you need a bigger riser coming out of the boiler, or maybe two risers for that size.
    Unless the mains are very short, you will need additional main venting after the last rad on the line.
    A low pressure 0-3 psi gauge will keep the pressuretrol honest, as well.
    When you get the piping sorted out this summer, then put some insulation on the pipes. If you are handy, you can do this yourself in a drop header configuration, using stock size nipples, from a professional supply house.--NBC
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited March 2015
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    Are the Mains, themselves pitched back towards the boiler? From the picture, at least the one looks pretty level??? That new nipple going up to the Mains may be a bit too long and may have eliminated/reduced the pitch.
    Near boiler piping is not right either.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,671
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    That piping looks like Lucy and Ethel took it apart to find a ring and then tried to put it back together. :o

    I'm sure that's hurting you big time but I'm curious where are you located and what size is the house?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Poco
    Poco Member Posts: 4
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    Thanks all.... Actually these are pictures prior to the piping being Insulated.. The Mains are indeed pitched from 0" at both header ends, to about 5" to the boiler fromt he floor joists. The header and all the take offs are "original".. They removed the old boiler and just installed this new unit, in which case never changed nor disturbed the original piping.. I'm in NJ.. As I stated prior my ONLY returns are from the Main Header back into the Boiler if that makes sence.. As the picture supplied above by Abracadabra, it shows a Condensate return which I "do not" have that on my install!! I installed a valve on my own and skimmed the Boiler, "Zero" dirt / oil. I do regularly open the lower valve so to clean out the sedament which isn't really that bad, maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 bucket.. As for Lucy and Ethel, HECK give them credit, it's more like Bert and Ernie, instructed by Dumb and Dumber!!! Looks like a Plumber is needed so to re-pipe it correctly.. UGG... $$$ Again thanks everyone..
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,671
    edited March 2015
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    There is no way all of those nice shiny new fittings and shiny black pipe are original and that's all of what is wrong.

    The original boiler probably didn't need a proper header as it had a large steam chest to dry the steam.

    The new boiler does need a proper header and was piped completely wrong. This was the installer's fault as he didn't know what he was doing and even worse, did not follow the manufacturer's instructions. :/

    If you didn't get oil out while skimming you didn't skim long enough. That new block was loaded with oil and it'll take months to get all of it out. The new piping and fittings also likely had some oil in them.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Poco
    Poco Member Posts: 4
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    Sorry Chris I meant the "Main Header Piping and the take offs from that to the radiators through out the house" are original. They just cut the old boiler out I guess installed the new boiler and re-piped to the existing "Old" Main Header... Sorry for the mis-info.. Yea I'll just need to find a good Steam Boiler Person in NJ... Question HOW long should one skim?? I can only tell you the water coming out wasn't dirty / oily at all.... I skimmed for about 1/2 hour, sounds like NOT long enough.. I'll skim the heck out of it at the end of heat season before I moth ball it for the season....
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,671
    edited March 2015
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    Good steam person in NJ?

    That's easy.

    @JStar

    http://thatcherhvac.com/

    Thatcher Heating & Air Conditioning
    2A Linsley Pl
    Metuchen, NJ 08840
    Phone number (732) 494-4357
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
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    There's really no issue with skimming now. You could do what's called a "fast" skim which allows a greater flow of water while slowly filling until the water coming out is tepid. The BIG advantage of doing it now, besides seeing the difference and saving some change until the end of the heating season, comes when you boil the water afterwards to get rid of the oxygen. Not so much fun to do when it's warm out, and a waste of fuel, to boot. JMO as a HO.
    I second @JStar .
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,517
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    I can't tell from the pics is it Counterflow or steam out with a dry return. Either way it's wrong
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited March 2015
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    EBEBRATT-Ed said:

    I can't tell from the pics is it Counterflow or steam out with a dry return. Either way it's wrong

    It looks like it's a counter flow. That auto water feed and the copper joints on the water supply lines are going to be fried above the water line like that also.
    I'm with the others. Who you gonna call, Call @JStar
  • Poco
    Poco Member Posts: 4
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    Got a call into Thatcher... HOPE they have a life boat !!!!!!!!

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