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Electric VS Indirect

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bronxheating
bronxheating Member Posts: 4
in Domestic Hot Water
I currently have a Burnham V8 (4 sections I think), with a coil. I am debating on whether or not to put in an electric hot water heater or an indirect.



Electric Hot Water

I was thinking of a 50+ gallon. The water will still be running through the coil before it gets to the tank, benefits me in the winter. But during the summer I will be relying only on the electric heater which has a low recovery.



Indirect

I will still be using the boiler to heat the water in the summer but I will be getting continuous hot water.



Suggestions? Please help me make a decision.

Comments

  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    Indirect Electric:

    Buy the 50 gallon electric, connect the potable cold and hot to the water heater, connect the boiler coil with the outlet (hot) going into the cold/top of the tank and pipe from the bottom drain of the water heater to the boiler "In/Cold) coil. Put a Taco 006ST circulator in this loop and pump FROM the bottom of the tank and into the indirect coil in the boiler. DO NOT connect any 240 volt wiring to the water heater. Disconnect any wiring from the bottom thermostat and use it for a switch leg to turn the circulator on and off. Set the High Limit on the boiler control at 170 degrees and the Low or operating setting to 140 degrees.

    I've installed between 50 and 100 of these or some variant without a single complaint. Electricity is the slowest, most expensive way to heat water.

    Anyone who tells you it is cheaper to install a dedicated indirect and cut into the boiler piping hasn't done the math. If you have a oil boiler with a tank less coil already there, only needs a storage tank.

    But some are smart. I'm not.
  • bronxheating
    bronxheating Member Posts: 4
    edited April 2014
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    So....

    you are telling me to go with a storage tank?
  • bronxheating
    bronxheating Member Posts: 4
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    Grasping the connections

    Can you draw it for me? It would be so helpful
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    edited April 2014
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    What is the reason for wanting to change?

    What is the reason behind changing how your dhw is made?



    A decent coil can make plenty of water and work very well when installed correctly...



    Are you not getting enough hot water? is it not hot enough? Fuel costs too high?



    I have been installing the hybird water heaters for summer use, since the rebates are so high rite now... They are a great summer time option if you are just looking to not run your boiler in the non heating season...



    I generally try to stay away from installing tanks when ever possible.... You may be able to get your tankless to meet your needs with very little work and effort...



    What ice is talking about will work very well if your issue is not enough hot water and can be very cost effective..
  • bronxheating
    bronxheating Member Posts: 4
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    Fuel

    My fuel bill is incredibly high and I am nervous about the summer.



    I would rather not have to heat up my boiler to get hot water out of the coil in the summer. Would you say that it is more efficient than an electric hot water heater?
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    edited April 2014
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    Check with your electric provider

    to see if they have any rebates for hybrid water heater installs, here we are currently showing $750 {last yr was $1000}, so if they do have a rebate that can cover a lot of the initial costs, a Hybrid is great in the summer since their bi-product is cold dehumidified air.. Running them in the winter is OK too, but you will be cooling air that you paid to heat...



    The install is simple, run 220 to the heater, a condensate {3/4 or 1/2 PVC} to a drain or to the outside, and the hot and cold lines... you can install it pretty easily in your existing water lines, I have a drawing around here on hot to pipe it so it can be configured before or after your tankless by shutting a series of valves, so in the winter it isnt sitting with stagnant water in it and it will work as a prestage for your tankless...
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    edited April 2014
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    heres the drawing

    this shows an indirect but it will pipe identically to your mix and cold from your tankless, this will let you run the water through the tankless and into your hybrid for the summer and then through your hybrid and into your tankless in the winter, it will help with your cold winter water too, since you will have 50 gallons sitting in there all the time soaking up an ambient temp in your basement...



    IMO the only thing that will save you money is either gas or a hybrid, a gas tankless can work well too... Its hard to justify the cost of a device once you factor in its lifespan, the hybrids seem to be coming with 10 year warranties, so figure on worse case you get the 10 out of it, if the unit costs you x amount to install and the only reason to install it is to save money you need to figure out of it will do that inside its lifespan... So if you are spending $150 of oil per summer, and the unit costs you $2000 and costs you $70 a summer to run, it saves you 80 per year so 80x10 years is $800, it would cost you $1200 and save you nothing, and it would have to last you 25 years to pay for itself {not going to happen}...

    Now if you are doing it to save the earth, or the rebates make it much cheaper, then that is a different story......



    Step one is to figure out what dhw costs you per summer, step 2 figure out what a hybrid would cost you per summer, step 3 get s price on the hybrid step 4 do the math...



    You can also figure about 10% in for adding a little life to your boiler since it wont be working all year if you like and another 5% for being Green, maybe another 5% for the cold air in the summer... If you need to help it make sense..
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    Drawings/Photo's:

    If you can figure out how to look back on my postings here, there are numerous photo's of how it is done. Your Burnham V-8 4 section boiler holds between 5 and 7 gallons of water in the block. That's all the water you are heating up.

    Rebates are a funny thing. I just replaced the 20+ YO AC system in our home in FLA. I went from a 10 SEER (or less due to age) compressor and evaporator. to a 14.5 SEER. I would have gone to 16 SEER or higher but there was a space limitation. With the $137.00 FLP rebate, the bill was still over $3,300.



    You need to understand "Druggie Math" to figure out what the best deal is.

    With the history of V-8 boilers, I'd be checking to see if it is leaking yet. That becomes part of the Druggie Math equation.

    When was the last time it was cleaned and did they take the side plates off or just brush the kibbles and bits into the bottom of the chamber to act as insulation?

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