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Ideas on indoor temp control opions

clammy
clammy Member Posts: 3,111
in THE MAIN WALL
Well the set up goes like this .9000 sq ft home ,all baseboard with each room having a thermostat and a taco zone valve with a purge valve under the baseboard cover(haydon baseboard nothing speical and excellent to bleed) There are no end switch tie in to the boiler.The system piping is a 2 inch supply with mono flow  tees it is not a single loop there are 2  1 1/2  and 1  11/4 returns .There is a single 3/4 hp b&g series 60 pump .The boiler and pump run off a honeywell outdoor sensor which turns it on at 70 degrees and the whole shebang runs balls out till it is over 70 and then shes off,cool set up .Being the whole basement is finished aside from the boiler room area.I was thinking of installing some wireless remote thermostats and have them cycle the boiler instead of running straight out .Running wires off the existing remote zone valves would be a huge PIA and a mess.The boiler is piped straight through and could use a major piping up grade like a outdoor reset /primary secondary piping  and possiblable another boiler and staging controls.It is totally amazing this is in a very hi end developement  and these home go for about 10 mil and up  the workmanship was a train wreak i could not believe the mechincal room .I know the guys gas bill must be about 1500 bucks a month in mild weather and the boiler room is  a sauna.Sorry for the rant but whats the thoughts on wireless stats for my purpose .Peace and good luck clammy  
R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
NJ Master HVAC Lic.
Mahwah, NJ
Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

Comments

  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Boiler control

    Clammy, are you saying that the boiler maintains constant temp of 180F or so whenever outdoor temp is below 70F, and circulator runs constantly or only when boiler is firing?

    As a cheap and dirty solution, what about a Tekmar 260 providing limited outdoor reset, so at least the water in the system is not maintained constantly at high temps.

    I am doing something similar at a 1950's co-op complex, where the tekmar now controls the boiler temp, and circulation time is set by indoor temp sensor. Saving about 30% in fuel cost now from what it was when maintaing constant 180F boiler temp.
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,111
    circ on boiler on constant 180

    yeah ,the tekmar outdoor reset would curb some waste and as for the indoor sensor it would be hard to find one spot to locate it being some areas are radiant with baseboard and it;s stat and zone valve still in place. The  1 st floor is pretty open except for a few bedrooms and mid floor music rooms strange floor plan with alot of custom  details like floating rooms   .I fiqured by putting  2 or 3 wireless t stat or better yet wireless remore sensors to a temperturing averaging thermostat i could use that to cycle the boiler and the tekmar to control temperture .I would really like to do some thing with the pump also like resize it to the proper sized pump and use a wet rotor but the way it is piped there is a consideable amount of head needed due to the system design and the 30 or so mono flow tees and zone valves it must over come .The way the mechincals are i could spend at least 3 weeks to straighten it out ,they need a total re do of there mechincals including a pool heater doing a outdoor jacuzzci 175mbtu ,2  100 gallon hot water heater  a crown 320 mbtu all tied into a 8 x8 chimmey  and all tied (hacked)into the chimmey with a single  8 flue pipe.Also the burmham 100mbtu direct vent boiler doing the  radiant and vented with 1  2 ft piece of stainless safety vent and the other 12 ft done  in standard galv flue pipe.The burmham doing the radiant cycles so often it is just way to funny like every 8 to 12 minutes even funnier is the 2 old one siting in the corner dead from flue gas condensation the same fate the new one shall face being the way it is piped .Could make a good buck there and install a system which would drasticlly reduce gas comsumpition and increase comfort   except like many super wealthy they will pass this hog pog of nothing onto the next owner in lieu of spending and improving there investiment and reducing comfort and realibity of there system .The ulitimate bull is having to go through this home room to room to bleed the baseboard with a bucket and a hose with custom wood work and carpets   what ajack **** set up and potental promblem first time the wall panels get muddy water on them .A side note is the boiler water lookes like chocalet milk yet worse .Again sorry for the rant peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    2" Mono-flo Mains:

    I know of a job, done for a very well known public figure, that was designed like this one. The 2" main was run at the first floor ceiling with zone valves to control the different room/floor zones. The first floor didn't work because Monoflows don't like to pump down. If a large percentage of the zone valves were closed, there wasn't enough flow pressure through the 2" mono-flo main when the loops were closed off. It was a bad design. An attempt to correct it was done some years ago by a HVAC person (True Airhead) and I don't know the results of the "Fix".

    If "I" were to try to "fix" that system and yours, I would go with temperature/boiler control. If it isn't a condensing boiler, I would use a hydraulic separator or better, a 4 way mixer that is ODR controlled and make the system temperature be controlled by the ODR and 4-way. That's the only way you will keep enough zone valves open to keep the pressure up to make the Mono-Flo's work properly. Especially any that flow down. I'd let the boiler run in non condensing mode and controll the system,
  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Fixing the mess

    Sounds like it needs a complete redo, but I understand that the owner would never go for it.

    If it were me, I would just install the Tekmar 260 control output in series with the present boiler aquastat and be done with it. The 260 could also provide the WWSD. At least in mild weather the boiler will sit at 140F or lower, and the present thermostats and zone valves will still control room temp. The standby loss will be less and there should be more even room temps in mild weather with the cooler water and longer zone on times.

    Any improvement would be better than what you have now.
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