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end of main vent(s)

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Luv'nsteam
Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
in Strictly Steam
Once I figure out how much venting I need, where is the best place to put them- at the end of the main (top-left) before the first "T"  or near the end of the dry return (the short nipple below the "T's")?  Keep in mind, it appears I will be completely dissembling what you see and redoing it in larger pipe to handle the EDR I am running through it, so where ever is best, is what I will do.



Thank you,



Mike

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  • RAF
    RAF Member Posts: 65
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    Might want to take a look here.

    Hoffman Specialty

    Literature

    Steam System Manual

    HS-901A

    Page 10

    Hope it helps
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
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    Hoffman specialty

    I did look.  What is a high pressure vent and what is its purpose?



    My system, when complete, will run on vapor, so do I even need a high pressure vent?



    Thank you,



    Mike
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,834
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    How long is your steam main

    and what pipe size is it? 
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
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    Length of main

    Total measurable length of main is about 11 1/2 feet at 1 1/2" diameter.



    It has two ells at 90* that add a frictional equivalent of 7 more feet.



    Do frictional allowances matter when figuring venting?



    Thank you,



    Mike
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
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    Venting needs

    Looking at the Gill/Pajek "Venting Steam Systems Using A Capacity Chart", and if my math is correct, the above main has 0.161 cubic feet of air to vent (not including frictional equivilents).  To vent that volume of air in 3 minutes (arbitrary figure from chart text) I would divide that number by three(minutes) and size the venting pipe and vent accordingly. 



    If so, then I could use 1/8" pipe and a single Dole #5 Quick Vent, but would likely use a Gorton #1 and 1/2" pipe to vent this main in three minutes (or less).



    Noting I am using all math for this, these numbers do not make sense in my head.  Am I doing this correctly?



    And what is the best location for the vent?



    Thank you,



    Mike
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
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    Steamhead,

    Have you had an opportunity to see my answers to your questions?



    Is my math correct or am I not smarter than a fifth grader? :~)



    Thank you for the help,



    Mike
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
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    venting question

    i don't think that the dry/wet return will have to be changed because of the EDR of the system, as only the steam-carrying pipes are effected. you could certainly put the vent on the horizontal [mounted up as high as your ceiling allows]. that nipple could be easily removed with the classic "thread-collapse" treatment, with a hacksaw cut through the pipe close to the fittings on both ends. then the stubs, sticking out of the fittings [1/4 in.] can be cut from inside towards the threads of the fitting , very carefully so as to weaken the remains of the pipe, without cutting into the threads of the fitting, and to enable its collapse using a hammer and punch. i have a few bracelets left over from that operation still hanging on the wall!

    don't skimp on the main venting. if you think you need a gorton #1, then get a #2. remember, you can never have too much venting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just as your pressure can almost never be too low.--nbc
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
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    vent size & location

    I am replacing all of the wet returns and some dry returns, so if adding a vent(s) at the end of the horizontal return is the best location, that is where I will put it/them.



    Per pexsupply.com, a G1 costs $19.00 and a G2 costs $53.00 (retail).  If a G1 will vent all of my air quickly, because of the cost difference, that is what I prefer to use.  I am not being cheap, I just do not want to spend more money than I have too.  I am also "king-venting" at least two risers from this main, so that should take care of any air in the up-feeds.  I have another, larger, main to vent as well and I may "king-vent" some of the risers off that main, too.  So I will be purchasing several more vents.



    Now that you know all of this, does that change your suggestions at all?



    Thank you,



    Mike
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,834
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    For a main described as

    "11 1/2 feet at 1 1/2" diameter", you don't need much venting. A Hoffman #4A will do, or a Gorton #6.



    Installing the vent at the end of that miniature horizontal dry return is fine.



    Is that the only steam main in the system?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
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    another main

    The main at 11 1/2 feet in length and 1 1/2" ID is the second and smallest main (more like a horizontal run-out?).  Is this an incorrect description??



    The other and larger main is 2" and without fittings is approximately 30 feet in length, parallel-flow before changing into, well, I guess you would call it another horizontal run-out that feeds one rad, is counter flow and is 9' 6".  There is a condensate return a few inches before this intersection of main & run-out and the pitch changes here as well.  I can provide a digital picture if you like, as my description does not seem very good.  Also, I have a colored drawing of the entire system I can upload, if that will help too.



    Thank you,



    Mike
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,834
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    That longer main

    is where you'd install the Gorton #2. It could go near the intersection of the parallel-flow and counter-flow mains.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
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    Gorton #2 location

    Will do.  Thank you Steamhead and everyone else who has helped. I cannot wait to complete this, test it, and post pics.



    Mike
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