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Stimulus Package

JackRJackR Member Posts: 125
I think you just answered your own question as to why they didn't, the market has just recently ( last few years ) matured and is now starting to look for more efficient products and the Gov't is now pushing.


  • JackRJackR Member Posts: 125
    Made in America??????

    Did anyone happen to catch that all Steel and Cast Iron used in any project funded from the new Stimulus package must be made in America unless you can show a 25% saving or more on the cost. I wonder if that applies to boilers? I assume that would be geared more towards commercial but it looks like the Euro boilers may be out.
  • DerheatmeisterDerheatmeister Member Posts: 959

    25% compared to what?

    I do not understand cost? Cost in the Install or the operation? and is the Maintenance included? how about life expectation?

    Again compared to the:
    The new 90+ Teledyne Laars boiler that comes from Italy?

    Or you regular Teledyne Laars Mini therms at 83% efficiency?
    which will have to make "Euro boilers" 108% efficient??

    Yes they are 108% efficient!! compared to some of the "domestic" boilers....

    Sorry :-) time to catch up.. just like the auto industries "We" have been sleeping!

    Maybe question Buderus or Viessmann about the 100 Plus efficient Systems and yes they are available for some time now :-)

    We shall also try not to be "Pumpaholics" and Proud of it and all the other parasitic Loads that "We" have been specing for so long now! that will reduce the 25 % system cost/operational cost/ and the Maintenance cost quite a bit!

    Maybe "We" shall try to disregard what "they" have to say or teach us and lean it the hard way! Politics??
    Or what do yuall think?

    I just hope that this does not affect the "Euro boilers"
    Since most of the "Leg work" comes from overseas forced on them because of the High fuel cost and it will not be to "Our" benefit to bite them or not gain from there experience!
    Or maybe "We" can be just like the Chinese and just Tear "theirs" apart and just copy it! Screw the Patents, and the experience ehh?

    Sorry did not want to offend "US"or"Them" or get outta hand. Some times Politics have deeper meaning and "WE" cannot understand because "WE" cannot see the overall Picture

    I and the Boiler Industries need a "Bailout"
    and i will "Bailout" to the ISH in a couple weeks just to get frustrated about what "our" government is going to restrict next.. and will be available in 15 years..:-)
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,843
    I doubt it applies to heat sources..

    But then again, from what I understand, none of the people that signed off on it even read it completely before they DID sign it...

    Isn't that something akin to impersonation, or gross negligence or something like that?

    What a mess... Now they want us to pay for the mortgages of people who got improper homes so we can keep them in their homes. What about ME? Where's MY stimulation?

    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • JackRJackR Member Posts: 125

    I believe the cost refers to the 25% savings in the cost of the material not the savings cost of operation.
  • Andrew Hagen_2Andrew Hagen_2 Member Posts: 236

    I couldn't agree with you more, Mark. What about those of us who bought homes we could afford?

    I still say most of those who make it to higher elected offices are those with spare time to campaign, not necessarily those who are best for the job.

    ...pours Mark a cup of coffee for stimulation...

  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,843
    Make it a double...

    Thanks for the stimulation Andrew. Much appreciated.

    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • GordyGordy Member Posts: 9,523
    Nothing new

    That has been around for a while. Any government funded project has to be done with materials from the USA. Now the 25% cheaper you can use it could be something new.

  • Rich Kontny_3Rich Kontny_3 Member Posts: 562

    They are willing to be of service to their country. So many complain with no involvement.
  • S Ebels_2S Ebels_2 Member Posts: 74
    That's a charitable view Rich

    Having been involved in politics at the local and county level for the last 8 years, I have to sadly say that the great majority of state and federal elected officials are in it for about anything but the service aspect. Power, wealth, influence, personal agenda and ideology.......yes. Serving the people of their district or the nation? That would be a resounding NO from what I have seen.
    I will agree 100% that the people of this country have more or less allowed this to happen by not being involved in the process and not taking the time to find out what's going on.
  • Rich Kontny_3Rich Kontny_3 Member Posts: 562
    I applaud

    Your service, more need to get involved in order to watchdog the greed and corruption. We are all responsible for the quality of our government.

    Special interest groups have had their way for too long. Transparency is desparately needed.
  • jp_2jp_2 Member Posts: 1,935

    special interest groups are bad, until you need them........

    biggest reason for smaller government, they don't know what the heck they are doing, and the less they do, the better for all of us.

    I'd like to know IF "anyone" has read the entire 1000 page bill? when was the last time you read a 1000 page book? I came close with my 1000 page calculus book, but that took a year.
  • JPK_2JPK_2 Member Posts: 1
    Where can we get the stimulating package?

    does anyone know where we can get a copy(probably on line) of the stimulaitng package?

    I this boiler thing is true where does that leave us? Lochinvar last I knew was still made in the USA. what about WM, Aerco, Hydrotherm, CB, etc.?
  • mtfallsmikeymtfallsmikey Member Posts: 765
    Guess I'm \"rich\"

    I make too much to see that extra $13/wk in my check...
  • ddennyddenny Member Posts: 75
    too much government

    for you politically minded small and very closly watched limited government guys; have you heard of alex jones of I think he's on the cutting edge of explaining, exposing and resisting the new world order. he's on 4 hours a day and rebroadcasts 24 hours 7 days a week.
  • GREG LAUERGREG LAUER Member Posts: 103
    go figure

    backwards thinking. lets prohibit the use of a more efficant unit so we can keep some steel workers employed? how about we step it up and produce a better product the world wants. just look at the auto industry! model A got about as much gas mileage as what comes of the line today! we are one screwed up nation. i say that with politicans and large biz owners in mind not the adverage joe. the adverage joe has more common sense. gotta go I have figure out what to do with all of my 13 dollar stimulus. While my neigbor who over extended himself with a 399,000 home and a BMW gets bailed out.
  • JackRJackR Member Posts: 125

    I don't think the units made in the USA are that inefficient? I am sure the U.S. Manufacturer's of heating equipment can step up and produce equipment that will equal any in the world. Let us not forget that the Europeans have the equipment they do not because they wanted it, they had no choice , it was mandated by the Govt. If the U.S. manufacturers were producing condensing oil equipment 5 yrs ago they would not have sold any in the U.S. since nothing was driving it other than the guy with Mercedes wanting to be " Green ". The German Govt set the bar real high because of pollution and the fact they burned all the wood they had, the manufactures didn't strive to make to most efficient boilers they could, they were forced too. It drives me nuts that everyone bashes the American manufactures for being so called " behind ".

  • I listen to Alex Jones all of the time. In my opinion he is a great patriot. I can't wait for his next movie.
  • GordyGordy Member Posts: 9,523
    Stimulus package in a nut shell

    Last year there were 139 million income tax returns filed.

    Take the trillion dollar stimulus package, and divide it amungst the tax bearing citizens, and that comes out to 7194.00 each.

    Thats what its costing each of us filing individuals to bail out, or stimulate how ever you want to put it. Stimulate sounds like less of an ecomomic blunder that was let to happen.

    We get to front 7200 bucks of the bail out with a 676.00 yearly return (13.00 a week).

    1 trillion dollars weighs over 1 million tons (in dollar bills). A boeing 767-200's take off weight is 200 tons.

    We should have loaded 5000 767s with a trillion dollars, and let them fly back, and forth over the USA sprinkling money over the country. Hows that for stimulus. At least we would know where the money went.

    Oh wait thats not very green is it. Let me re calculate how many hot air ballons it would take. That would be more so it would also be better propagation of the money.

  • joel_19joel_19 Member Posts: 931

    They would have to cut down all those precious trees to sprinkle real money out of the plane a true greenie would suggest that you just credit it directly to the bank acounts of folks. How bout they send it all to my bank acount and I'll promise to send you guys a check in the mail just like the customers promise......
  • tom_49tom_49 Member Posts: 269

    Lenny. i agree with you that the US manufacturers can make as good a product as any. But why dont they. Most things in this country is driven by price, the cheapest price. It seems thats the market they are after. The German gov't did help quite a bit by mandating high eff. equipment, but that was in 1973. wow, 36 years ago.

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  • GREG LAUERGREG LAUER Member Posts: 103
    dont get me wrong

    I do not think the world is comming to an end because of greenhouse gas or cows farting. i think if you check your allminac we are in a patern not a crisis. I do think however not loding up our landfills with plastic and such is a positive thing going forward. I think reducing energy costs for me through High eff equipment is good. but we do not do it as Americans because the manufacures are paid buy large oil companies and such not to. greed is the main problem with our economy today not George Bush or Iraq wars. No one as me my opinion on a stimulis package and here is where common sense beats politics. give every tax payer 300,000 as of a set date. let them do what they want with it. it is cheaper and it will stimulate more than any other package these morons in D.C. can come up with. non taxed no restrictions if you choose to by dope with it so be it if you want to pay college loans do it. no matter what happens here in the future the common man will figure a way out of this and when it is fixed someone else will take the credit. turn off the man in the box that spews there slanted side of everything this would be a great start to reviving our economy. doom and gloom helps nothing we are so impressed with our instant gratification no a days but it does have a negitive effect on us. amaerican manufactures could lead the world in better product but they choose not to because it cost stockholders money and there pockets are lined not to. wake up people the goverment is not going to help us we must help ourselves. this is truly what makes America great.I could go on all day but my lunch break is over and I was raised with a good work ethic.
  • mtfallsmikeymtfallsmikey Member Posts: 765
    Possibly an answer to the answer?

    Along that time frame, during the Arab oil embargo, W/M, Burnham,(who had just bought up the A/S hydronic division) and others brought out flame retention oil burners, redesigned boilers...which did not work so well, especially with high-sulphur/ easy-to-congeal fuel oil. The primitive (as compared to today's burners)flame retention heads carboned up bad, boilers would run rich, soot up...maybe they're scared to jump on the bandwagon again, who knows?
  • ddennyddenny Member Posts: 75
    new world order

    I sincerely believe it is to some people's best interest to cause the economy to implode and deliberatly cause america to become a 3rd world country. and I think they're well on their way to doing just that. who ,why and how and what to do about it? I understand the gist of what's going but am not smart enough to explain it to you. for answers to those questions I would suggest taking a good look at
  • bill_105bill_105 Member Posts: 429
    A customer tells me

    Last week I heard that larry Flynt is seeking bailout money. Now that is a stimulus package!
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