Bad service, taking $$$

massrookie · November 2006

What about when the bad service is by a tech. in your own company? The customer wonders why this year's tune-up is taking over an hour, only took 20 minutes every year for the last decade! Customer says the last guy said it wasn't his jobn to clean out the flue pipe....doesn't have the common sense to wipe the boiler/furnace down when he is done, the 5 year old system looks 20...40 year old 1725 burner/boiler but the last tag reads 83% efficiency, mine is 77%, homeowner not happy with THAT! Maybe I should just give up and spend most of my day at Dunkin' Donuts too...

tim smith · November 2006

Bad service, taking $$, Rant

3 times in the last week we have followed behind other companies to fix problems that customers were left with. One job we went to because customer had spent a fair amount of money and still left w/ no heat. New ignition module, ?gas valve I think and still was not working, I think they were still looking for more parts. Found HW ignition module put on w/ only spark lead hooked up, left flame sensor dangling. All was needed was to remove jumper and put flame sensor wire on and voila. Heat. 2nd, customer had spent appx 9k to fix what was just a leak to start with, new indirect, pipe work in boiler room, expanision tank etc. Still no heat and having to reset boiler 4 times a day to keep running on dhw. She would get up at 3:30am to reset so hubby had hot water. Gurgling all over. Found relief line out wall leaking, they put on potable expansion tank on boiler, left at 40psi charge. Guess what, relief leaks! duh. Adjusted charge in tank, flushed system of air. Adjusted aquastats. Changed wiring on zone valves. 3hrs later they have heat and relief won't pop on heating boiler any longer. Called her next day and 1st time in 2 weeks she did not have to reset limit. Go figure. Last one, furnace, customer has been trying to get co. back to finish repairs on furnace, no heat for I think 2 weeks, We go by at 4:30 pm and just need to make some wirign changes and all done, this one I think was a combo of owner and other company making repairs so I don't know who did what. This is just a rant on I get very irritated about chasing other peoples poor work and taking way to many dollars for same. Maybe 60 minutes will get ahold of some of these people who are just in it for the money. Tim.

Robert O'Brien · November 2006

A lot of it is just ignorance and not larceny, although you're right sometimes I've thought the only difference between Bonnie & Clyde and some of these guys is they don't use a gun!

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Ross_7 · November 2006

I'm there with you

I know exactly what you guys mean. LOTS of times, going behind contractors, after they charged an arm & and a leg for something. Then having to re-do a lot of it. Like you a lot of it is ignorance, but a lot of it is all about how quick they can get it done, & all about profit, and not functionality or craftsmanship. damn shame.

[Deleted User] · November 2006

I believe it was Maurice Maio who said.... Hire a salesman...

and teach him how to plumb. And this is not directed at everyone in the trade, but there are certain companies out there with lightly to poorly trained "technicians" out there, using a flat rate guide, trying to correct the problems of the world. And doing a TERRIBLE job at that.

When I come up against these "technicians" in the field, I tell them to attend my class before they hurt someone or get hurt themselves.

Was on a job just the other day. Old Arco gravity hot water boiler, in need of replacement. Potential home buyer paid me to come look at the system and give an opinion. As I'm standing there, doing a mental take off and system configuration, this smartly dressed "technician" from one of the local high profile flat rate companies walks into the room, looks at the boiler and says to the homeowner, "Oh, this is a steam boiler. We'd be glad to give you a bid to convert this to hot water. We don't recommend that steam boilers be left in operation. Too unsafe..." I winked at the potential home owner, and after the "technician" left to go out to his truck to work up a price, I explained and educated the homeowner as to what it was that we were looking at.

Before I'd left, and within 15 minutes, the "technician" came back with a contract for the complete replacement of the system, including ripping out the elegant cast iron radiators and installing a new 80% efficient heat source. The guy was bold enough to ask for the customers signature on the contract and said he could get started TODAY with the project... The boiler and near boiler piping was COVERED in asbestos.

I didn't even bother to ask the HO what price he'd been quoted, and the HO chased the technician out of the house and refused to pay their diagnostic fee.

NEXT VICTIM PLEASE...

I feel your pain.

ME

Rich Ferris · November 2006

I have had my share of that

Tim,

As a Sub-Contractor I have the fortune of following the other Subs that work for the same Oil Co. I used to get mad when the calls came in. Callbacks are about 90% of the On Call that come in after the origional Sub on scene goes home and who cares about the on call guys. Well I've learned to just let it go and think it's money in my pocket and I don't have to collect. Just get it fixed. The Operations manager of the Oil Co. would just get mad when I bitched so now instead of bitching it's billing. It's tough though since the Customers are already upset and standing over me since the other Guy's couldn't fix it and now it's do or die for me. In turn I get the "Lady requested you since you fixed her unit last year and she wants a T/U this year. So it is off to the next one. Meanwhile I never say anything about the other guys since they are just hanging themselves and if the customer says How come the other guy didn't find or know that I just smile and say sometimes it just takes another set of eyes. We don't get it everytime but I try like Heck.

Rich

A.J. · November 2006

I hear you brother

I just cleaned a ten year old Bard oil furnace yesterday that the installing contractor had supposably cleaing and tuning up since it was installed.
First thing my helper and I noticed is that the insulation had not been cut to get to the clean out covers so no cleaning in ten years. It was so dirty that I don't know how it ran.
Second on the list was no combustion test hole, so it was not properly set up.
Third on the list was that it was a 100,000 BTU furnace with only four 6 inch runs coming off it,it took about 4 mins. to bang off the limit from a cold start.
How do you tell a H.O. about all these problems with out looking like you are trying to jack the bill,not to mention how it makes contracters look?
That we need is a nation wide lisencing to protect H.O. from guys that just don't know or don't care.
Kupetz's Plb & Htg

Timco · November 2006

I just followed "factory trained' service company that claimed condensate line was blocked, making leaks & rust. Found both 90%ers were rusted through the metal collection trays. Had to replace both. THAT was the real fix. Supply house was in the next town away to get them. HO is happy the house could sell / close. Factory trained to use a rag & clean the visible water????

Tim

Ross_7 · November 2006

Mark,
had a similiar event the other day.Some folks were looking at a nice Victorian house, that needs some TLC. The local self proclaimed "rock star" house inspector discouraged them from buying it because it a had a steam heating system in it. "That'll cost at leat $20,000 to replace, you don't want to deal with that!" What a jerk! This guy should be stopped. I really hate that crap!
Ross

joel_19 · November 2006

Dinosaurs

iwent out last night to one of our accounts where they let they let thier "fuel service fuel provider" clean the furnace instead of us since our price was so much higher. Heatexchanger never cleaned, wrong nozzel sooted it up , grounded out electrode.

Spent 4 hrs at my brother in laws cleaning out his totaly sooted Peerless steamer . Hanging on the boiler where all the tags "cleaned and checked" every year by the dead dino supplier. judging by how rusted all the bolts where I'm guessing 5 + years since anyone looked inside of it.

I love those guys hope they never go away. The only part that ever bugs me is when stupid H.Os complain how much more exspensive we are when we just finished bailing them out from one of these other yahoo's . Typical this occurs at night when it's really cold , in the snow.

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Steamhead (in transit) · November 2006

The sad part is

many of these incompetents ARE licensed in some way. The more I see this, the more I think that these days a license only proves two things:

1- the person with the license has a pulse; and

2- the person with the license can pass a simple test, and/or get someone to sign for their time.

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Ragu_5 · November 2006

Oh Boy!

All of you guys are dead on right and I'm not sure where to add something, or if I can, but I would like to make a valliant attempt.

One thing that I have noticed at training seminars, is that the independent guys appear to be there for the knowledge and the fuel company guys are there for the free lunch and a day off; this is not a hard and fast rule, but I believe that it is a 75% accurate observation.

I have also gone on jobs that were installed by inedendent hacks who cut the ground wires off of everything.

I used to keep my mouth shut and not bad mouth the poor competion, but this year I have started being upfront with the customers when I see poor quality work and/or dangerous situations caused by hacks. Those guys collected their money for bad things done, and they do not deserve any respect or coddling; they were bad boys, and the world needs to know that they did not do their job correctly or safely.

I have no tolerance for incompetence, whether it be from a fellow tradesperson or from a customer. Life is too short and I've spent too much time, money and effort to become the skilled and honest tradesperson that I am. Truth or die.

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Steamhead (in transit) · November 2006

Good thing

I wasn't there to hear that! He would have gotten a royal reaming.....

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tom_49 · November 2006

Same here. I take every course my schedule allows and am tired of seeing bad installs.

I too have started to be more upfront w/ customers with bad installs in regards to the original installer having no clue, or worse, not caring.

I have had more people complain about 1 particular co. in my area, it amazes me they continue to do the volume of work they do. The customers have to call and call to get them to go back to fix problems w/ their systems. Sometimes they wont go out. Eventually they stop calling them and get us to fix it, at a premium co$t,Amazing.

We are not perfect, but I gaurantee we will do the best job we can within the jobs budget.

Glad to see RST helped you out. They are top notch.They came out to our 1st Vitodens install as well. Homeowner was very impressed.

Gotta go eat some bird.

Tom

Mark Wolff_2 · November 2006

test

Was the testing graded on a curve?

If each state adopted testing and training requirements for residential HVAC work like it does on commercial HVAC or plumbing, most of these issues would be drastically reduced.

As a by-product, there would be huge waiting lists for qualified individuals and large pay increases to boot. Could the nation handle it? Who knows. Should it happen? Absolutely.

David Sutton_6 · November 2006

Frank

My old company you know the "light house" Mechanical, had gone in otis Mass and replaced a steam system ,with Baseboard , the system would not heat evenly,so the bull s!$t artist sold him a new boiler and baseboard for a ungodly sum of money! all the system needed was main vents and rad vents, I called the guy up to try and stop him but it was to late he already gave them a check and signed the contract.

David

Techman · November 2006

Bad Service =Good Money

Morning All! I do more commercial refrigeration service and rooftop HVAC than hydronics,bad service is bad service!For the most part I am beyond caring about the bums in any part of our trade!Whenever I take over a new customer my expertise shines thru,my hourly rate is slightly higher,my truck is slightly bigger and slightly more well stocked! I have dozens and dozens of classes/schools to help make me a better tech,and more valuable to the customer.I'm not interested in who or how many others have had their fingers in the equipment. Give me a chance!Let me talk to you(the customer) about your problems, let me educate you ,let me show you some of my books with picturers. I explain why this part or that part is not correct for a particular situation.Some listen, some don't!Now for a little braging, 3 years back I picked up a customer who had 30-40 service calls a year, for years!This year only 3 ,last year only 4-6! SO,TO YOU BUMS,BRING IT ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I have compassion for the customer having spent all of that money and wasted most of it. I make my money the OLD fashion way, I EARN IT!

Ragu_5 · November 2006

Hey,Techman .....

You are right on, my friend! Proud of ya!

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A.J. · November 2006

What's the answer?

Steamhead your right licensing wouldn't be a total solution. Does anybody have a solution on how we as a professionals can regulate and mantain a top notch public service? If anybody Watched Beans wed seminar Tuesday on Radiant and the Human Factor,( which was very good ) contractors are at the bottom of the list as far as the type of proffesionals they trust. I am just wondering if there are is any good ideas out were.

Steamhead (in transit) · November 2006

One more reason

why you left..... I couldn't work with bums like that either.

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Weezbo · November 2006

licensing is just a hope that, at least ,the information has ,at

least, "passed by the installers attention" ,at least, once....

get it ?

the other day i got a call from New Zealand and it was a friend of a friend saying," we have a rental ...the young lady there has no water or sewer..two other companies have been out..one stated the water supply line was frozen under ground...the other replaced the pump"...so i bagged the day off too go do a service call...

"you could use a manual reset control on the pressure differential switch giving the control something of a Brain,meaning it will cut the motor off when it sees atmospheric pressure instead of running and running until the impeller welds the motor into full locked rotor necessitating a New Motor or pump..."

the thing needs some purge valves and a means to test it and prime it...so i say," ok well i could come back tomorrow"

...the one guy comes back with tools and a bucket ..ok well then i get a call Sunday and slough it off till Monday when the parts stores were open go back do my thing take the cover plate off pump motor, the 5 gallons into the pump and tank made a run for the parts shop on a valve and check valve and another 5 gallons of water....leaving the pump motor cover off....well...what was the problem? why wouldn't the thing GO ?

Bad service, taking $$$

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