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One pipe steam and finned tube

mikeca
mikeca Member Posts: 16
in THE MAIN WALL
What is the quality of the steam you are making? What does the water in the gauge look like when the boiler is firing?

Comments

  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8
    One pipe steam and Finned Tube

    I have a 1929 home with a one pipe steam system, love it. I have read "we've got.." three times, searched and searched "The Wall" talked with all the local knunckleheads and professional pipe fitters to no avail. I have lowered the pressure (.5-1 cutin and 1.5-2 cutout)replaced all (2) main vents, all (11) unit vents, drained, flushed and cleaned the boiler (no chems.), removed (1)improperly piped unit, checked slope of tubes (good),all critical dimensions, piping arangements and insulation (good ol' asbestos), checked valves for full open, checked and reset cph on thermostat (3 cph)and probably a few other things I have forgotten.

    Oh, and by the way I have 1.25" copped finned tube units, some moron circa 1970 something sold someone on them I'm sure. All the units heat well, when working. I have replaced unit vents twice. Once with Hoffman 1A and now with expensive, high tech, Danfoss Thermostatic for one pipe.

    They are allways clogging, allways, so did the Hoffman. Spitting condensate on my floors, walls and drapes untill they are fully clogged=no heat. I change them and rotate cleaned free flowing vents to whichever unit goes down. This problem occurs with 9/11 units. (1) is the last small radiator left in a bathroom wich works great the other I have no clue why it does not have a problem. This has become a constant battle every night after work as the temp. plumates. I wake up at 3:00am to shut a unit valve or two every night to sleep. I open valves again every mornig off cycle to allow trapped condensate to drain.

    I have come to believe the problem is inherent to the finned tube. Steam condenses faster as heat is given off faster by copper, flash. 1.25" is not alot of room for steam and condensate to share(steam wins), finned tube does not have the "sump" below the steam valve invert to hold condensate and promote the trickle of condensate down the low wall of the pipe.

    New or refurbished radiators would cost alot, as far as my extensive research indicates.

    Can anyone provide any help? I'm loosing the clogged vent war.
  • Gene_3
    Gene_3 Member Posts: 289
    hmmmmm

    I don't know if you can, due to space or aestetics but maybe adding a riser to the vents with a nipple or st el and nipple to get them higher, out of condensate, they don't bang or knock??? double check the pitch, you may have mud in those that is spitting out, washing out may be a pain or impossible, with the unit off try to flush clean water down the vent hole maybe with a sprayer??

    the only alternative that I can think of is $$$$$, putting in radiators
  • Bob W._3
    Bob W._3 Member Posts: 561


    Would it help to vent the risers to get the steam to the units fast, and then slow vent the units, with Hoffman 40's?
  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8


    Sometimes they knock and gurgle as the condensate fights the vent, I thought about a Riser, but would presume that the same steam pressure pushing the condensate into the vent at tube elevation would just push it higher up a riser. Pitch is plenty and I have taken some of the tubes apart and they are clean, like a whistle.
  • Gene_3
    Gene_3 Member Posts: 289
    dunno

    outside of changing them to radiators all I can think of is putting in Sarco Thermostatic traps instead of the vents down below, but I don't know if that would work, you'd have to have some room below to pipe and then again $$$.

    What you have is a hybrid one of a kind that may not have ever worked for long, sorry
  • Joe Brix
    Joe Brix Member Posts: 626
    BB too long?

    BB steam should not be more then 3ft or so right?
  • Phil_6
    Phil_6 Member Posts: 210
    too long

    I think that any type of baseboard on steam pretty much **** except on a 2 pipe setup. Steam in one side,condensate out the other. Sometimes like Joe above says the 2-3 footers are okay. I always tell the customers the long guys have to be mounted vertically to work and not spit water ;-)
  • Anthony Menafro
    Anthony Menafro Member Posts: 200
    Steam BB

    I've found that if you go longer than six feet, you are guaranteed to have problems. I also feel that you should have the smallest vents possible on the BB so that they don't overcondense causing the BB to flood, hence the spitting.

    Anthony Menafro
  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8
    3-4

    The finned tube BB units are 3-4 feet
  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8


    I do not understand the relationship of "small" vents to over-condensation. We need to get the air out to let the steam in. i would presume by smaller you mean less volume= slower. The same amount of steam eventually enters and condensates asuming the BB heats all the way across, right? Thanks for the input but could you extrapolate?
  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8
    3-4

    3-4 feet depending on room is correct
  • Bob W._3
    Bob W._3 Member Posts: 561


    One pipe baseboard should be pitched 1/2" per foot, I recall, meaning a 2" pitch on your 4 footers, back towards the supply.
  • Bob W._3
    Bob W._3 Member Posts: 561


    When you let steam into a cold radiator (or baseboard) too fast, using a quick vent, you can get rapid condensation, which can cause noise and spitting. Dan talks about this in the venting chapter in The Lost Art of Steam Heating. Get a copy, its worth it.
  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8
    Slow Venting?

    I ahve just ordered "Lost Art" thanks for the push. In the meantime, Since all the units have pretty much the same volume, I have been venting based on distance from boiler. If I SLOW VENT, which is contrary to everything I have learned and been doing, I would adjust the farther units to slow and the nearer to very very slow, Correct? If I SLOW VENT=restricting air out I would guess I would have to increase pressure cutout to allow steam to reach the units before pressurettol says stop ? I really appreciate the input.
  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8
    Slope

    I have at least 2" in 4 feet. I will check and try to make them all 2" in 4 feet.
  • AGURSKI
    AGURSKI Member Posts: 8
    Steam Quality

    I would guess pretty average. There is a little movement usally no more than an inch or so. I have considered wet steam, though I am not exactley sure how to remedy the problem if it is in fact part of or the problem. It does seem to make sense. Can you provide any solutions to try to eliminate wet steam? Thank-you.
  • mikeca
    mikeca Member Posts: 16


    I would be thinking water quality(more cold skimming), near boiler piping, or overfired burner.
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