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Geo versus High Efficiency Boiler

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[Deleted User]
[Deleted User] Posts: 99
in THE MAIN WALL
Just use 1/3 of the current cost per KWH to reflect the COP of 3:1. However, make sure your local electric company doesn't decide to throw you onto a demand program, or most all of the $ savings potentials go right out the window.

I agree with Devan regarding the inefficiency of the electrical plant, and the claim of no dinosaurs killed in the process of delivering these ultra green BTU's, blah, blah blah... These statements MIGHT be true if all energy were made via nuclear generation capacity.

ME

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  • Chris Blake
    Chris Blake Member Posts: 1


    As a heating contractor I am having some issues trying to show the true efficiency of geo versus a 96% condensing boiler and radiant floor heat. It seems the cost anaylisis programs only take in to account the combustion efficiency. Not the total system.

    Does anyone know of a program or something that I can use to demonstrate this to potential buyers?

  • Singh_4
    Singh_4 Member Posts: 21
    chris

    most geo manufacturer's have some type of comparision program, that compares oil, gas, electric baseboard, furnance , heat pump, basebooard etc. Of course they show that their operating costs are better than that of lets say a high eff. gas boiler.
    What they don't show is how inefficient the generation of that electrical energy from the power plant is.

    my .02 cents
  • Steverino
    Steverino Member Posts: 140


    I understand the desire for a software package to do it for you. I believe that some of the proghrams used to do heat loss gives you an anula cost. But I think you could do it yourself without too much problem. If you are not looking for how to do it; my apologies for this post. This is just my off-the-top-of-my-head two cents. I hope it is useful.

    If you can use a spreadsheet, although you can do it by hand, the factors to give a useful comparison ought to be fairly simple. I think you can generate a meaningful result without a software package.

    Use previous projects to get initial time and materials for several scenarios using the different types of equipment. Get them as similar as possible. If you don't have good cases, make an estimate like you would for a bid.

    On each configuration identify particular maintenance costs and projected lifetime.

    On each configuration add up the ongoing electricity use for any circulators and fans.

    Determine annual BTU heat loss. You may have software that does this stuff for you. Divide heat loss by efficiecy( COP of HP). You now know the amount of input energy required by each system. If you have systems with similar losses (you really need these examples) you can now provide relative costs for each type of system by dividing the total BTU loss adjusted for efficienty that you calculated by the energy in a unit of fuel, to get the amount of "fuel" consumed.

    These fuel numbers multiplied by fuel cost gives the fuel cost. Add in the fuel costs of pumps and fans. Amortize initial cost (cost/lifetime). This could get a bit complicated if you factor in mortgages. Add service costs.

    I put together a simple spreadsheet for you to play with.
  • S Ebels
    S Ebels Member Posts: 2,322
    Here's one that I use

    From the Fed's Energy Iformation Agency

    http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/generalenergy_faqs.asp#compare_heating_fuels


    The link will open a page that contains their "energy cost comparison" Click on that link to open an Excel based program that allows you to input efficiency level and loacl fuel prices. It breaks everything down into cost per million btu's of a given fuel being used at a given efficiency.
  • Perry_2
    Perry_2 Member Posts: 380
    One of the \"dirty\" secrets of the energy industry is

    the poor efficiency of the fuel type generation and delivery system.

    It would shock you. In some cases it approaches 50% of the energy at the "source."

    Oil and Natural gas do not just magically jump from the well to your house. Electricity is not generated next door (for most of us).

    Because of that it is very difficult to calculate the "true" efficiency of things.

    All we can really do is work with the delivered price to our door - and neglect the efficiency of the process that delivered it to our door.

    Although; the "environmentalist" would have to support massive infastructure changes if they were truely worried about minimizing our use of energy. A lot more could be gained by focusing on the delivery systems than by tweeking things inside the houses and businesses. Of course - that would cost money and mean new construction - and both concepts seem to be against their core principals.

    Perry

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