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you can do (almost) anything you want and it will still be "to spec's.".


  • FRANK_24
    FRANK_24 Member Posts: 80

    On page #1 the engineer wrote*
    boiler pad shall be 4" thick etc.
    On page #2 *tew
    under no circumstance shall the boiler pad be less than 6":
    On page #3 tew near boiler piping shall be 4" welded
    On page #4 tew near boiler piping may be same size as house piping (11/2" cop.)
    On page #5 tew controls shall be.....Honeywell P404A. (It's a hot water job)
    On drawing M-1 the engineer drew** primary/secondary,
    On drawing M-2 **ted single loop
    On sheet M-3 the engineer specified PTAC units on the third floor..the building is only two stories, using existing heating only convectors.
    Ahhhh....what I'd love to do with those initals written after this guys name.

  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    sounds like Alan may be \"On \"to something there :)

    Weezbo *~/:)
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,393
    RFI Time....

    Time for Requests for Information...

    Some of my bidding contractors are also my best proof-readers :)

    Actually, not to be a skunk at a change order party, but there may be a clause in the specifications that "the more stringent of conflicting requirements will govern" and that any ambiguity shall be brought to the A/E team's attention before proceeding.

    Not to make excuses, but this is a limitation on using canned specifications or having boiler-plate language that is never updated nor reviewed. We are expected to do more for less in fee and time against deadlines (just as contractors are), but I can more appreciate the fellow in the field with a wrench in his hand (if not a Frankie Wrench), waiting for direction.

    I like to think that we as a profession can do better but can only apologize on behalf of some for annoying errors.

    My $0.02

    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"

    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Dave_4
    Dave_4 Member Posts: 1,405
    All engineers..

    With tyhe sole exception of Brad White, use boiler-plate specs. They mingled them for so many jobs, none make any sense.

    From a legal bid standpoint, you could be devious and perhaps be low bidder?

    Take the absolute WRITTEN spec, and bid on it. When you are found to be the low bidder, point out all the errors and demand corrected specs. showing exactly what is asked, what is code and what will maximize your profits.

    To be absolutely sure of on firm footing, call wheoever the project manager is, or the highest ranking officer of the client (not the PE) involved, and request clarification.

    When you get passed off to another person or place or firm or planet - which will undoubtedly never reach, keep accurate records of what, when and who you spoke to or attempted to to KYA.

    I got more than one big job by being smarter than my competition. Sending a certfied letter to someone in charge the day before the bid opening and having the return recipt returned a fgew days later just about nails down your attempt at correct conflicting specs.

    Bid jobs are always a joke. Specs. are always whacked out. But most of the time correcting the PE's errors is where the add-ons cash register go cha-ching.

    One of my favorite sounds for sure.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Mark Hunt_3
    Mark Hunt_3 Member Posts: 184

    These were ALWAYS the toughest jobs I had to get involved with when I worked for the big company. I was quite happy in my design/build residential world but my job required that I also work in the commercial world.(I have been involved with bid/spec residential work on rare occasion)

    I have to wonder how much money those "boiler plate" specs cost the end user. My old boss LIVED for those "extras".

    In most instances the drawings were on the money and the systems went together as well as can be expected.(You mean every body didn't follow the co-ordination drawings???) Unfortunately, those jobs just get lost in the shuffle of every day life. BUT...... we remember the ones that start off on a bad foot and eventually get gangrene. We are human after all and any human will remember getting poked in the eye with a pointy stick.

    My new job allows me to travel a bit and I get to see things that I would not have seen otherwise. I saw a snow melt system a few weeks ago that almost made me fall down. All done to spec too.(I would post pics, but I would not want anyone to think I was picking on another pump manufacturer. The pumps on this job could just have easily been Wilo. As most of you know, I work for Wilo pumps now. The installer installed exactly what was spec'd. Manufacturer had nothing to do with this.)

    You want to talk about wasting energy? In the hour that I was in this mechanical room, the 1.5 million btu input boiler fired almost constantly. It was 58° outside and no snow in the forecast for the next 2 months. 160° water being delivered to the slab by the "primary" pump. System pump was off but the "primary" pump was big enough to push water through the slab piping.....FROM the boiler room over 100' away.(System pump and Primary pump were exactly the same size. HUGE!)

    There is good and bad in everything. If you had a bad experience with an engineer, sit with Brad White a few minutes and your entire attitude changes for the better. Your local wholesaler ticked you off??? I know a few wholesalers that will carry your kids school books home for them.

    It does not matter what one does for a living. If you are in it because you LOVE it, you will do IT well. If you are in it for ANY OTHER reason, you do it so that YOU do well. Not do "IT" well. People notice that difference too.

    We are sitting on the edge of a turning point. EVERYTHING is about to change BIG TIME. Sorta' like when we went from horse drawn carriages to "horseless buggies".

    Those "boiler plate" specs will soon be gone.

    NostraMarkus has seen it.(And who could POSSIBLY question someone with such a cool name????)

    Better days are coming.

    Mark H
This discussion has been closed.